Pizzawheel

For anyone wondering about the equivalency/ portability of the Chartered Engineer qualification to Canada- something which is as clear as mud- this article on the IMechE website is the only reference I've actually found of any use in not only explaining the situation and issues, but the background and reasons behind difficulties many may experience.

The Engineering Profession in Canada

The author is qualified as both and has experience inside both organisations to give this explanation.

I think this might be worth a sticky- I wish I had known this before getting embroiled in the bureaucracy!

christmasoompa

It wouldn't be worth a sticky as so few people on the forum would need the info, but feel free to add it in to a Wiki article.

Thanks for posting.

jimf

This issue crops out now and again. In my opinion someone who has a UK engineering degree post 1989 which complies with the Washington Accord spends a year in Alberta does the ethics exam and can get 4 (I think its 4?) P.Eng references should have no trouble getting P.Eng in Alberta at least.

There is no equivalency between P.Eng and C.Eng.

smivers

2 references, I believe... Don't think I had to find 4, and only one of the two was a P.Eng anyway - the other was a C.Eng in the UK!

Pizzawheel

Christmasoompa- good idea. Looks like it would go under Canada- Occupations, but I can't see a way to create a new page for Engineer or to add the link. A page would certainly be handy as the process is easier in some provinces than others. If I had advance knowledge I would probably have moved into one of the provinces with more open-minded regulators. And probably stayed there!

Pizzawheel

I had some time today to look at trying to add the link to the Wiki but couldn't figure it out- I was looking for a "add link/ add page" button, is there a different knack to adding something?

cheers

haggis88

Did you try this?

Help:Contents : British Expat Wiki

not2old

In the OP the link gave a personal example of the snakes & ladders of a UK registered C.Eng trying to get licensed as a P.Eng in Canada. Most of it true & as frustrating for many.

Engineers Canada (the old CCPE) Engineers Canada set the guidelines, the individual provincial associations/ licensing bodies membership evaluation & review of an applicant can be as wide as they are long. From personal experience having been on the ARC as well as the ERC of a provincial P.Eng body, I can tell you its not always as clean cut, not a black & white route. Nor is it for the UK Associations.

Put yourself in the shoes of the examiner/assessor of the provincial association that is reviewing a file of Engineers from all of these foreign countries that want to be licensed Engineers.

I have many funny & weird tales to tell about so called Engineers from abroad wanting & getting licensed & yet there are many overly academic qualified persons that did not get the P.Eng

My route to the P.Eng was not straight forward. A person who had exactly the same qualifications & experience was stamped in as a P.Eng, whereas, I & others had to do cartwheels.

Route to P.Eng coming from another jurisdiction is not always straightforward. During certain periods when membership of a provincial association is slow or dwindling, it is possible that under qualified persons can become a P.Eng. There was a period in the 70's early 80's when an HNC could get a P.Eng. Similar happenings with the UK associations. Basically Engineering experience making up for the lack of academics.

My suggestion is that if you are a degreed Engineer with a C.Eng coming from the UK, have 10 years of proven, well documented Engineering experience - first step is to get yourself employed in the Engineering profession in your province, wait 2-years, then apply.

If you do it straight from the get go, you will likely be refused, or be set exams other than the PPE.

For those of the old Engineering qualifications & prior to the Washington accord - those with 3 or 4 year degrees, those that went the HNC, HND, Engineering council (or the old CEI) exam route to C.Eng through one of the UK Engineering associations - the provincial associations assessing your membership may look at you funny, depending on which membership assessor is reviewing your file.

Core Engineering competencies

http://www.engineerscanada.ca/sites/...d_Feedback.pdf

For those that became C.Eng via the alternative route, make sure you have consistent membership & C.Eng registration for more than 10 years. Make sure the evidence of work is what the provincial association has currently for 'what an Engineer does' - which is different than that of the C.Eng

You may be required to attend either an academic and/or experience interview. Have your stuff together if applying for P.Eng with foreign qualifications & experience

and of course the FAQ's

http://www.engineerscanada.ca/freque...sked-questions

Now retired, I no longer pay the fees to professional associations in Canada or other places around the globe

Pizzawheel

This would be my recommendation to- unfortunately you can't withdraw an application, and I didn't know this at the time.

The other key note is that the Washington Accord is not upheld by the provincial licensing bodies, as they are not signatories, so there's no scope to challenge. I think PEO does actually note this somewhere on their website, but again, I discovered this too late.

Pizzawheel

@ Haggis88- I think I managed it. Hopefully we can build on this as a mini knowledge bank. I know the deal varies considerably from province to province.

not2old

one fact. I had a lad from the UK with a first class honours degree working for me in Ontario back in the 80's. Aged 23 he was eager to get going to PEng. Forewarning him of would likely occur, he made an application.

The result was 4 exams to do. If he'd have waited 3+ more years he likely would have got his P.Eng.

Many others like that with different twists, such as a person in their 30's that made an application in the late 90's. One of the practical engineering types that went the engineering apprentice route with an Higher National qualification, further study at Imperial College with a D.I.C post-Grad Diploma. He wasn't a C.Eng - but he too was rejected & ended up at the Provincial Technologist association with a CET. In another case an applicant refused by Ontario moved to Alberta & was licensed

PW, good luck with it

JAJ

Really? You say that Canadian provincial licensing bodies (all of them?) have a policy to ignore the Washington Accord?

Engineers Canada signed the Accord but is obliged to use all reasonable efforts to ensure that its member bodies abide by the Accord's terms. And according to Engineers Canada, they do. Frequently Asked Questions | Engineers Canada

If this is a real case of the Accord not being accepted then you could still complain to a. Engineers Canada or b. the Engineering Council U.K. or c. the Washington Accord secretariat.

johntheScot

this person is correct.

all the post with people having difficulties getting registered are related to pre Washington accord issues which was signed 25 years ago.

Ever think this is the reason they signed the accord?

Can you get you CEng in the UK with only a HNC/D when the standard is now a MEng? not sure why people you think someone with a HNC would be eligible for PEng?

for Peng registration you need to hold an undergraduate engineering degree from a Canadian Engineering Accreditation board (CEAB)-accredited program, or possess equivalent qualifications

if your degree is covered by the accord you will have no issues as they have been assessed as equivalent. if you have different qualification you need to show them as being equivalent. This "equivalent" part is what is open to different interpretations by different engineering regulatory bodies. They would most likely accept a BSc from 1980 as equivalent but would see a HNC/D as tech qualifications and not equivalent. They then set exams which they can waive for people with 5/10 years experience depending on the regulatory body.

I know personally of 3 recent cases of academic assessment for none accord qualifications. the 2 with British qualifications had exams waived in lieu of experience. The Filipino wrote engineering exams.

"International agreements are intended to simplify the evaluation of a candidate's qualifications. They do not override the provincial or territorial engineering regulatory bodies’ authority to evaluate and grant licenses in Canada, according to their legislation. "

Pizzawheel

Not exactly- I'm saying the provincial licensing bodies are not obliged to follow the Washington accord. This varies by province and I understand that Ontario pays least heed to it.

I've been advised not to try the formal complaint/ legal route, as I may get the PEng but end up worse off through some unofficial retaliation. At the moment it doesn't seem to be affecting my employment (I've been pretty much continually employed I engineering since I've been here) I'm not overly concerned. Also despite the greater regulation here than the UK the engineers are relatively worse off (in my industry)- the power & salaries are with the contractors these days.

For the record my degree is post-Washington accord and my CEng qualification is through the degree route. The sticking point is it's in a field of engineering not recognised by Engineers Canada, so I had it assessed under the three different fields it straddles, being assigned exams in each. This seems to have got the red flag on my file although at the time it seemed like the only way of finding the easiest route in. Until I read the article I linked I could not get my head around the problem; now I appreciate that in absence of Washington Accord recognition, because my degree does not fall into one of the Canadian pigeon holes, there is no route through to grant me the PEng without the supplementary exams (which are all out of discipline).

Basically I'd admit the problems are on me for not doing sufficient homework before coming and then applying immediately I arrived. The issues are commonly known online and though the various British engineering institutions that have active groups here. My intention with this post is raising awareness of the possible problems so people have more chance of arriving informed, and as I mentioned above, I think the article I linked to is definitive reading.

johntheScot

out of interest what is your degree in? what is your area of engineering?

they can waive the exams
"
If you have been assigned a Confirmatory Examination Program and have more than five years of engineering experience, PEO may grant you an interview with its Experience Requirements Committee (ERC) to determine if your experience provides any basis to warrant exam relief."

you could request an interview to see if the exams could be waived? This route is common in SK. I assume as a CEng you have more than 5 years, would also not be afraid to make a complaint ask for a re-assessment etc.

If that dont work you could go through another province get your PEng and transfer bit of a pain but may work especially if some of the work you do is connected to another province to justify applying in another province.

You could apply for a limited licence (bit of an insult to a CEng).

not sure how waiting a period of time when you arrived before applying would have changed their minds about your degree?