Do you lose all the money paid in NI (from UK)
Jan 26th 2018, 12:17 am
#46
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,439
Re: Do you lose all the money paid in NI (from UK)
I don't know what you were told, or if there was some twist to the situation with respect to NHS pensions, but the "opt out" I am talking about was an opt-out from SERPS, which paid an enhanced pension, over and above the basic state pension. I knew when I opted out that it would eliminate my SERPS pension entirely. So, for me at least, there is nothing "unfair" about it. ...... Maybe you are part of the "mis-selling problem" which affected many public service employees such as teachers, nurses, and police.
Jan 26th 2018, 1:24 pm
#47
Seasoned Maritimer
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick CA
Posts: 8,309
Re: Do you lose all the money paid in NI (from UK)
I don't know what you were told, or if there was some twist to the situation with respect to NHS pensions, but the "opt out" I am talking about was an opt-out from SERPS, which paid an enhanced pension, over and above the basic state pension. I knew when I opted out that it would eliminate my SERPS pension entirely. So, for me at least, there is nothing "unfair" about it. ...... Maybe you are part of the "mis-selling problem" which affected many public service employees such as teachers, nurses, and police.
This was some 25 years ago.
Jan 26th 2018, 2:45 pm
#49
Happy
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,942
Re: Do you lose all the money paid in NI (from UK)
You paid in 19 years, so you'll get 19/35 of the full rate as it will be then.
When I left in 2004 I had 32 years in and 40 were needed for full retirement pension (RP) so I'd have got 32/40. Then it changed to 30 so I'd have got the full whack.
But then it changed again to 35 so for me it became 32/35 (albeit the amount increased so 32/35 was likely to be more than the full lower amount if you see what I mean.
So that was two changes announced in a little over 10 years. So maybe another change in a few years is possible. But whatever that change is, you'd get 19 out of how many were then needed as a result of a change. Plus any extra you pay. It would have to be a pretty radical change - the sort of thing that's never happened - for you to lose anything you pay extra.
Anyway, just to give an example, my pension forecast identified three missing years, equivalent to £30 a week on current figures.
As they said I qualified for the class 2 rate that meant for about £450 I could make up those three years and my RP would increase by £30 a week. So £450 qualifies me an extra £1560 per year from age 67. So get it back within 4 months and it's all gain thereafter.
As I say, I don't understand why they said I could pay the lower rate which appears to be linked in to self employment, but even at the higher rate I'd have started "making a profit" in the second year.
That's the kind of deal you can get and helps make up for the freezing that happens to the RP in Canada. It really is worth getting the Pension Forecast.
When I left in 2004 I had 32 years in and 40 were needed for full retirement pension (RP) so I'd have got 32/40. Then it changed to 30 so I'd have got the full whack.
But then it changed again to 35 so for me it became 32/35 (albeit the amount increased so 32/35 was likely to be more than the full lower amount if you see what I mean.
So that was two changes announced in a little over 10 years. So maybe another change in a few years is possible. But whatever that change is, you'd get 19 out of how many were then needed as a result of a change. Plus any extra you pay. It would have to be a pretty radical change - the sort of thing that's never happened - for you to lose anything you pay extra.
Anyway, just to give an example, my pension forecast identified three missing years, equivalent to £30 a week on current figures.
As they said I qualified for the class 2 rate that meant for about £450 I could make up those three years and my RP would increase by £30 a week. So £450 qualifies me an extra £1560 per year from age 67. So get it back within 4 months and it's all gain thereafter.
As I say, I don't understand why they said I could pay the lower rate which appears to be linked in to self employment, but even at the higher rate I'd have started "making a profit" in the second year.
That's the kind of deal you can get and helps make up for the freezing that happens to the RP in Canada. It really is worth getting the Pension Forecast.
A few years ago I used to think the same way, and I was sceptical that I would be eligible for a status pension (and unfortunately therefore missed out on a few years of Class 2 contributions 
) but there has been a renewed commitment to the state pension, and so under the current terms I will be eligible for it.
So my thought process is as follows:
● If my career goes belly up, and I end up in poverty I am pretty certain I would get a state pension, and if life was that bad I would likely return to the UK, if only because of the cost of healthcare in the US, and in the UK I would definitely get paid my pension. So I would be very glad to have made the modest additional contributions.
● But if life continues to be good for me, and I retire with good savings and investments, enough to fund a comfortable retirement, and, in the worst case scenario, the British government makes the state pension means tested and I get nothing, then all it has cost me is around £143-£145/ year, which is less than we spend on an occasional treat or birthday meal at a posh restaurant. The decision was pretty much a no-brainer at that point.
So for you, I ask, why wouldn't you make a one-off investment of very slightly over £1,000 (current plus six years arrears of Class 2 contributions) to buy a pension increase of £2,000/yr for life? At average life expectancy you're looking at a return of well over £20,000 for a £1,000 investment!
.... But if you know about any other pension or investment opportunities that are even half that good, I would very much like to hear about them! 
But the opt-out was to fund a private pension. I was opted out for a few years, but part of my private pension funds reflect the debated money from the time when I was opted out, so it's not like the pension reduction was stolen from us!
) but there has been a renewed commitment to the state pension, and so under the current terms I will be eligible for it. So my thought process is as follows:
● If my career goes belly up, and I end up in poverty I am pretty certain I would get a state pension, and if life was that bad I would likely return to the UK, if only because of the cost of healthcare in the US, and in the UK I would definitely get paid my pension. So I would be very glad to have made the modest additional contributions.
● But if life continues to be good for me, and I retire with good savings and investments, enough to fund a comfortable retirement, and, in the worst case scenario, the British government makes the state pension means tested and I get nothing, then all it has cost me is around £143-£145/ year, which is less than we spend on an occasional treat or birthday meal at a posh restaurant. The decision was pretty much a no-brainer at that point.
So for you, I ask, why wouldn't you make a one-off investment of very slightly over £1,000 (current plus six years arrears of Class 2 contributions) to buy a pension increase of £2,000/yr for life? At average life expectancy you're looking at a return of well over £20,000 for a £1,000 investment!
.... But if you know about any other pension or investment opportunities that are even half that good, I would very much like to hear about them! But the opt-out was to fund a private pension. I was opted out for a few years, but part of my private pension funds reflect the debated money from the time when I was opted out, so it's not like the pension reduction was stolen from us!
Jan 28th 2018, 12:14 pm
#51
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2016
Location: St Catharines, Ontario From Bournemouth UK
Posts: 417
Re: Do you lose all the money paid in NI (from UK)
Here's a good guide from Royal London explaining how to top up your state pension
To check your state pension online use https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension
To check your state pension online use https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension
Last edited by glendem4; Jan 28th 2018 at 1:15 pm.
Jan 28th 2018, 10:31 pm
#52
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: Do you lose all the money paid in NI (from UK)
I don't know what you were told, or if there was some twist to the situation with respect to NHS pensions, but the "opt out" I am talking about was an opt-out from SERPS, which paid an enhanced pension, over and above the basic state pension. I knew when I opted out that it would eliminate my SERPS pension entirely. So, for me at least, there is nothing "unfair" about it. ...... Maybe you are part of the "mis-selling problem" which affected many public service employees such as teachers, nurses, and police.
Jan 30th 2018, 12:44 pm
#54
Seasoned Maritimer
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick CA
Posts: 8,309
Jan 31st 2018, 9:38 am
#57
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 36
Re: Do you lose all the money paid in NI (from UK)
Thanks Pulaski and to everyone else for posting on this thread, I honestly hadn't even thought about the state pension 'issue' until this morning - I've already been on the phone to the Geordies!
I've got a question regarding my wife's state pension situation, if anyone can provide some general advice. She's a Kenyan citizen and been in the UK since 2010, and has worked here since 2011, under a tier 2 visa (and now a spouse visa since we got married in 2015).
Therefore she's been making NI contributions for a good few years and it seems like she would qualify for class 2 contributions once we finally move in March as Permanent Citizens. However would her citizenship status affect her ability to contribute to and collect the state pension? As in, would she have to apply for British citizenship to continue to qualify for her UK state pension, or can she continue with her Kenyan passport and then apply for Canadian citizenship when she's eligible?
I've got a question regarding my wife's state pension situation, if anyone can provide some general advice. She's a Kenyan citizen and been in the UK since 2010, and has worked here since 2011, under a tier 2 visa (and now a spouse visa since we got married in 2015).
Therefore she's been making NI contributions for a good few years and it seems like she would qualify for class 2 contributions once we finally move in March as Permanent Citizens. However would her citizenship status affect her ability to contribute to and collect the state pension? As in, would she have to apply for British citizenship to continue to qualify for her UK state pension, or can she continue with her Kenyan passport and then apply for Canadian citizenship when she's eligible?
Jan 31st 2018, 12:06 pm
#58
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,439
Re: Do you lose all the money paid in NI (from UK)
..... I honestly hadn't even thought about the state pension 'issue' until this morning - I've already been on the phone to the Geordies! .....
I've got a question regarding my wife's state pension situation, if anyone can provide some general advice. She's a Kenyan citizen and been in the UK since 2010, and has worked here since 2011, under a tier 2 visa (and now a spouse visa since we got married in 2015).
Therefore she's been making NI contributions for a good few years and it seems like she would qualify for class 2 contributions once we finally move in March as Permanent Citizens. However would her citizenship status affect her ability to contribute to and collect the state pension? As in, would she have to apply for British citizenship to continue to qualify for her UK state pension, or can she continue with her Kenyan passport and then apply for Canadian citizenship when she's eligible?
I've got a question regarding my wife's state pension situation, if anyone can provide some general advice. She's a Kenyan citizen and been in the UK since 2010, and has worked here since 2011, under a tier 2 visa (and now a spouse visa since we got married in 2015).
Therefore she's been making NI contributions for a good few years and it seems like she would qualify for class 2 contributions once we finally move in March as Permanent Citizens. However would her citizenship status affect her ability to contribute to and collect the state pension? As in, would she have to apply for British citizenship to continue to qualify for her UK state pension, or can she continue with her Kenyan passport and then apply for Canadian citizenship when she's eligible?
* Under the treaties with some countries, years from one country can be aggregated with contributions in other countries, so that you get credit for years of contributions that you would otherwise not be able to claim a pension from. I do not know if/how this works for residents of Canada.
Feb 12th 2018, 11:54 pm
#59
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,817
Re: Do you lose all the money paid in NI (from UK)
Just an additional point.
They already confirmed my eligibility to play the low class 2 rate. My account on the state pension website lists a bunch of unpaid years but because I already had 32 years in and have since paid another, I actually only need two for the maximum.
My letter confirming I was eligible for class 2 listed the rates I could pay - around £145 - for each of those years. It varies according to 52 or 53 weeks and it doesn't appear to make the slightest difference which two years I pick.
But a few days ago I noticed all those years on my account on their website quoted the higher, class 3 rates. No mention of class 2.
I queried this and they said "The online forecast always shows the Class 3 rate, if you are eligible to pay Class 2 then that is what you can pay."
So just in case anyone else sees the class 3 rate on their account, you may still be eligible for the lower rate, like me.
They already confirmed my eligibility to play the low class 2 rate. My account on the state pension website lists a bunch of unpaid years but because I already had 32 years in and have since paid another, I actually only need two for the maximum.
My letter confirming I was eligible for class 2 listed the rates I could pay - around £145 - for each of those years. It varies according to 52 or 53 weeks and it doesn't appear to make the slightest difference which two years I pick.
But a few days ago I noticed all those years on my account on their website quoted the higher, class 3 rates. No mention of class 2.
I queried this and they said "The online forecast always shows the Class 3 rate, if you are eligible to pay Class 2 then that is what you can pay."
So just in case anyone else sees the class 3 rate on their account, you may still be eligible for the lower rate, like me.
Feb 19th 2018, 6:44 pm
#60
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 72
Re: Do you lose all the money paid in NI (from UK)
As I understand it, you will get a UK state pension based upon the NI contributions you've made. At 21 years it won't be a full state pension. You can check how much you are likely to get here: https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record . When you get your state pension in the UK, however much it is, you can still receive it in Canada. However unlike for UK residents, it won't be index linked to inflation so value will diminish over time.