Manc

When I said you were talking bollocks, it was mainly a figure of speech. I would have used exactly the same terminology if we had been sat in the pub.

The stats are there to prove that Manchester is indeed a major city, despite what you had earlier mentioned.
For instance, Greater Vancouver has a population of 2.4 mill (census in 1997) Whilst Gtr Manchester is nearly 2.6 mill.

However if you were to comment to a Canadian that Vancouver wasn't big wenough to be classed as a city then you would be laughed at.

CalgaryAMC

I may be wrong about this, but on a cursory glance at the numbers, I think if Manchester were lifted up and put in Canada, it would be Canada's second largest city.

mickj

Hello there,

I wasn't talking about the size of the cities in the first place, i was talking about what constitutes a city. When we see all those surveys about standards of life and quality of life, we do not see Manchester there on that list, all you see is london new york sydney, vienna and others.

Again....the reason for that could be, it just does not appeal to people, and its just not on everyones list as a mojor city to want to move to. That is all am saying, and we in canada here know there are some small towns with city status.

I am from london, have lived in TO before moving to where i am now which is regarded as a city, but hasn't got the popln of TO, not even 10 times. I know Van is a city, a major one, but many people round the world would still choose that and others before manchester. Again we are playing with old numbers here, this is no good today in the year 2004. How many people have moved to Van since 1997?

Manc

But the OP wanted to compare violent crime, then Manchester is a good city to compare anything against with regards crime (it's pretty horrendous in some areas) but I suspect no worse than other urbanized areas of the UK.

I don't really care for anyone else's opinions on the merits of the city. since the 1996 IRA bombing it has done wonders reinventing itself.

The Nynex (now Manchester Evening News Arena)
Lowry
Imperial War Museum
Trafford Center
Gtr Manchester Stadium
Third Terminal and second runway at Ringway makes the airport bigger and busier than Gatwick.
Velodrome
Have all been built in the last decade.
Not to mention the new Piccadilly Gardens and Metrolink infrastructure.

It really is a world class city. Fortunately after the commonwealth games in 2002, the rest of the world seems to think so too.

Due to the size of Britain, Liverpool / Manchester / Leeds will some just merge into one big commercial center along the M62 before long anyways.

lee2

I have the same reaction as you Seamonsta, it's the violence and wally Britain that depresses me and I still like Britain a lot.

Two years ago I treated my niece and nephew to a (very expensive) evening out to one of the first-run cinemas in Leicester Square to see 'Bend It Like Beckham'. As we made our way across the square, at about 10:00pm on a Friday night, there were loads and loads of (suited) young guys drinking out of pint glasses or cans, blowing of steam, which was fine. In what appeared to be a random attack, some guy from one group came swiftly up to another rather nerdish looking bloke talking to another and glassed him.

Blood was streaming down his astonished face as the other group legged it. The man claimed he had never seen his attackers before in his life.

I was shocked, so was my then 10 year-old niece. My nephew wasn't and no-one else seemed to bat an eyelid really. And I remember lots of incidents like this when I lived in Britain. You could try and escape it by going to what you thought were less violent pubs etc. but the truth is these days it does seem to happen anywhere without warning.

(In Toronto by the way, public drinking is banned. When I first arrived here I thought it was as puritan and awful as the government liquor stores they have here, but now as I get older and more Victor Meldrew-like and alcohol disorder becomes more and more of a serious social problem in other places, I find I approve more and more.)

I've never quite worked out what it is that sets otherwise probably decent blokes to become 'did you spill my pint/look at my bird' sociopathic maniacs as soon as they have a couple of pints. It is a peculiarly British problem. But I find it a truly depressing one.

By the way, to get my oar into the debate I think Manchester is definitely a city and to characterise it as some sort of hicktown is very insulting to people who come from there. It may not be a New York, but it's definitely like a Boston or Philadelphia.

Manc

I would have thought what with all the tourists and what not, that Laiecester square would be one of the most policed open areas of the UK.

lee2

You'd think.......

CalgaryAMC

It's like a strange twilight zone. It's not that the police aren't physically present...it's that they just don't seem to care. It beggers belief.

hammered

[QUOTE]Originally posted by seamonsta
I used to live in Manchester and felt extremely unsafe on many occassions. On one occassion in Salford, I actually thought my life was in jeopardy.
One of the reasons I left was after an incident in which a couple of girls took over this poor old womans home, killed her and put her body in a wheeley bin, which they then pushed into a canal.


this happened in failsworth, not a bad area by manchester standards.

agree with collyhurst, used to go to a club there called the electric circus, bad

Interested

I know what everyone means about the loutish, evil, criminal violence that seems so prevelent in the UK. I and many of my friends etc have been victims of crime (mugging, assault etc), in London and Manchester. I know people that are scared to go outside in fear of having to walk past a gang of youths.

This happens not just in London and Manchester, but any of the other cities, or even rural villages. It's a real problem and it needs to be sorted out. Why are people like that in the UK, what's their problem????

Toronto seems like paradise compared to living in one off the afor mentioned cities crime wise.

Int.

seamonsta

Yes, it's not just Manchester and London by any means. It's just I used to live in Manch and that was particularly dangerous. I remember an incident in the small quaint town of Beverley quite recently, where a guy out with his girlfriend was thrown through a shop window by a gang of drunken lunatics. His arm is now useless. Apparently the attack was completely unprovoked.

So, it even happens in small wealthy places. Not just the inner cities.

As I said before, incidents such as car theft and burglary while extremely annoying, do not ruin your life. They're not personal attacks. However when you read countless incidents of people being brutally attacked or murdered for seemingly no reason, it really starts to alarm. You tend to get the idea that most people in the street are a potential threat and would stab you as much as look at you.

seamonsta

Yes, it was Failsworth. 90% of Manchester is pretty bad. Harpurhey, Miles Platting, Longsight, Moss Side, Cheetham, Blackley, Wythenshawe, Hulme, Broughton, Salford, the list is endless. it's quicker to say the nice bits and even they're pretty dodgy for street crime and muggings etc.
Truly the most frightening area by far is Salford. Goodness me, it's like walking around a war zone!! You feel like you're going to get murdered any second.

...anyone who doesn't believe how rough parts of Manchester are.... look at Hulme 10 years ago (before it was demolished).

Jeffy G

My girlfriend and i stayed in Downtown Toronto last summer. We were told that the Quality Inn was situated in a supposedly rough area! I can without doubt say that i'd rather walk the downtown streets of Toronto at night than London!! Very safe and very clean!! Can't wait until our month long holiday to TO in july!!!

BRING IT!!

mickj

Hello there,

You seems to have based your perception of TO on a couple of weeks stay at the quality inn ( formerly know as the Ramada ). As a Londoner that has lived in TO, but now living outside of TO, i can tell you there are more shootings in and around To than there is in London.

I don't know where you were walking in London, if you say Brixton at night, i might agree with you, but central London which is equivalent to downtown TO, is not that bad at all. I spent 20 odd years going there as a londoner.

If you don't mind me asking, are you a londoner at all? It seems its always the ones from outside london that think london is dangerous. Yes TO is clean, and people are more well behaved, and know not to drop their mc donalds rubbish on the floor.

There are many crimes that go on in TO unmentioned, people that live there will tell you. My wife use to live in TO and worked downtown before i moved over, she had enough of it, and just wanted to move out. We live west of TO now, and can be there in 45mins for the things we enjoy doing.

seamonsta

I am quite familiar with London and it's not just Brixton that's rough I am sure!
Yes, I grant you, Regent Street, Oxford Street, Piccadilly etc. are about safe as you can get. They're very touristy and extremely heavily policed and as such it's highly unlikely you'll get into problems. Stray up into King's Cross or across the river into Vauxhall or Bermondsey however and it's a different kettle of fish. Some of those estates on the south bank are downright dangerous with some complete psycho's hanging about. I would feel perfectly safe walking around Soho in the early hours yes. But there's no way I would walk up into Hoxton or even Kentish Town in a group smaller than 4 or 5. I walked through Pentonville once by myself and was cacking my pants! It was scary!