Chloepleass

Hey all!

This is my first post - eek! So, I just want to say hi to you all - I have been watching this forum for a good while now and have finally signed up for an account

I was hoping to get your advice. Me and my OH are planning on eventually moving to Canada (yay!!) Our hearts are set on the beautiful scenery, cultures, jobs and educational opportunities and overall, what seems to be a lifestyle more suited towards us.

We have been researching into various states and figured what better advice could we get than from someone who has the full-on Canadian experience.

We have whittled the provinces down and have our eyes set on Alberta - from what we have researched we are closing in on Calgary .vs. Edmonton (however we are open to suggestions following our factors to come...)

We are hoping to gain some kind of outlook on an area within Alberta that would be most suited to us...

- We are a two-person family, mid-twenties. With an eye to build upon our family within the next five-ten years. A friendly, family-driven environment is a must.
- We are an LGBT couple and therefore, it is incredibly important we move to a safe area. We have read that Canada's LGBT rights are some of the most advanced in the world and this is incredibly important for us to move somewhere, that is for the most part, accepting of us and our marriage.
- We are into the 'Great Outdoors' - originally, we are from Rural East of England and I suppose, really do fit into the 'Country Bumpkin' lifestyle! We would much rather a hike in the woods, watching the wildlife, spending a chilled-out day on the lakes and visiting country fairs, as opposed to attending concerts, football games, etc. However, it would be nice to have the opportunity of visiting festivals, stadiums within an hour or two.
- We enjoy shopping and therefore, would appreciate malls with mainstream shops within an hour's drive preferably.
- Job opportunities are important to us. My partner is a Registered Dental Nurse and I work for the Government in the IT sector. I have read that at present, Alberta's roaring oil/engineering field is flourishing - do we have chances in the medical and technical lines of work there, too? If not, where?
- In terms of housing, once again, we are used to Rural life. We would appreciate a detached house in a nice neighborhood, as opposed to an apartment/flat in the city. We've read into guides that NW/SW Calgary is nice. Is this true? Is there somewhere more suited based on our factors so far?
- Weather doesn't bother us greatly. To be honest, so long as we get a mix of warm heat/snowy weather that's all we care about. We don't mind wind, snow, etc. We've heard of Chinooks.

I'm desperately trying to think of what else could be an important factor in moving, but that's all I have for now... I appreciate there's probably been thousands of posts on this, but I couldn't find one specifically on Calgary .vs. Edmonton/surrounding areas with our particular situations.

I appreciate all of your future responses, you guys seem so helpful and friendly in your other threads!

Have a great day!

christmasoompa

Hi, and welcome to BE.

The US has states, Canada has provinces and territories.

I've never visited Calgary, but lots on the forum live there so I'm sure they'll be along to help you out shortly (and can help you with the economy side of things, as I'm not sure it is 'flourishing' at the mo from what I've heard).

I'm assuming you'll be heading over on an IEC visa which is great as you'll have the freedom to go anywhere and not have to go where you can find a sponsoring employer. Do look in to what your OH would have to do to work as a dental nurse, I've no idea but knowing Canada I suspect there will be quite a few hoops to jump through and exams to sit!

Best of luck with it all, I'm sure you'll get some great advice from those in the know once AB wakes up.

Chloepleass

This is exactly why I am thankful for signing up to this forum haha

To be honest with you, we were hoping to look into permanent residency. From what I've read the IEC seems to be geared towards a temporary holiday of two years, rather than setting up and staying in Canada for a fuller-term(?) Please correct me if I'm wrong though. I'll definitely be sure to research more into the IEC though, as the other benefits you listed sound absolutely fantastic!

I appreciate your lovely comment and look forward to reading the thread later.

christmasoompa

If you do qualify for PR and are absolutely sure you want to live there permanently, then go for it.

But a lot of people don't qualify for PR without a job offer to get a visa, if that's the case for you then an IEC would make much more sense than trying to find an employer prepared to sponsor you and go to the cost and hassle of getting you over (particularly as you might not find an employer in AB so would have to go elsewhere). Once you were there on the IEC you'd then get extra points for work experience in Canada etc, so would then hopefully find it much easier to get PR.

IEC is a great option for those that don't qualify for PR straight away, or those that just aren't 100% sure they would want to stay in Canada permanently, no point in spending thousands more on a permanent move in that case.

But it will depend on your situation really and what your CRS score is as to whether or not you can get PR before you go, if you can then that's great.

HTH.

Shakyuk

Welcome to the forum!

I am in the process of emigrating and I'll be heading to Calgary when I hopefully get a visa.

If you haven't already I'd suggest taking a trip out and seeing if you like it and may visiting some other provinces. I visited Vancouver in British Columbia and it had a very different feel, I also did a road trip from Calgary to Banff, Jasper, Edmonton, Red Deer and back to Calgary. The distances between places gives them a very different culture and feel.

I was surprised how much I liked Vancouver, but the property prices and population density put me off plus it was a bit superficial.

I found Edmonton a bit bland, but this may be unfair as it seems the city has lots of festivals and we stayed when nothing was on. It was a lot more blue collar industrial but the city was very clean, felt safe and was very nice along the river. Property prices seem cheaper in Edmonton, access to nature is good but it is a long 4 hour drive to the rockies whereas Calgary is 1-1.5 hours.

We quite liked Red Deer, it was a medium sized town and there didn't seem to be much going on, but it seemed very nice and friendly.

Calgary for us definitely felt like a place we felt we could start off and ideally move to a small town a few hours from the city in the long term. I think a visit really does add more than reading ever will but I appreciate that isn't always a posibility for people. Calgary had a good amount of restaurants and bars. It also has a stampede which is awesome!

In answer to your bullet points:

- We are a two-person family, mid-twenties. With an eye to build upon our family within the next five-ten years. A friendly, family-driven environment is a must.

This is what myself and my girlfriend are looking for and we felt Calgary fit the bill. We're also into the out doors much more than drinking/partying and Calgary seemed to provide access to both.

- We are an LGBT couple and therefore, it is incredibly important we move to a safe area. We have read that Canada's LGBT rights are some of the most advanced in the world and this is incredibly important for us to move somewhere, that is for the most part, accepting of us and our marriage.

My friend is a lesbian and has travelled throughout Alberta and Sask and has found all areas to be very accepting and friendly. When me and my girlfriend were there we felt Canada was very accepting of all people. I felt much safer in Canadian towns and cities than UK ones too.

- We are into the 'Great Outdoors' - originally, we are from Rural East of England and I suppose, really do fit into the 'Country Bumpkin' lifestyle! We would much rather a hike in the woods, watching the wildlife, spending a chilled-out day on the lakes and visiting country fairs, as opposed to attending concerts, football games, etc. However, it would be nice to have the opportunity of visiting festivals, stadiums within an hour or two.

Calgary has the stampede and seems to attract a decent number of internationally recognised music artists when compared to other Canadian cities.

Edmonton seemed to have festivals going on all over the summer months!

- We enjoy shopping and therefore, would appreciate malls with mainstream shops within an hour's drive preferably.

Calgary has a decent small mall, Edmonton has the biggest mall in north America complete with waterpark, theme park, shooting range..

- Job opportunities are important to us. My partner is a Registered Dental Nurse and I work for the Government in the IT sector. I have read that at present, Alberta's roaring oil/engineering field is flourishing - do we have chances in the medical and technical lines of work there, too? If not, where?

Albert'a oil/engineering field is unforunately far from flourishing, the province is slowly recovering from recession and mass job losses in the oil patch. This year it is expected that the economy will continue to recover but employment opportunities in most industries will remain low. The health sector does seem to have a lot of jobs across Canada but I'm not sure about Dental Nurses.

It's not all doom and gloom, but I was watching Calgary in the boom and the crash and the opportunities are much less now.

Edmonton seems to have more employment opportunities across the board.

- In terms of housing, once again, we are used to Rural life. We would appreciate a detached house in a nice neighborhood, as opposed to an apartment/flat in the city. We've read into guides that NW/SW Calgary is nice. Is this true? Is there somewhere more suited based on our factors so far?

Most places I went were pretty nice but nice is subjective. I personnaly want a rural property with some land, there seems to be many areas like this throughout the province. In the cities there does seem to be housing estates with very similar cut and paste houses. However I think the Canadians arrange theirs estates better than the UK. Where I am, a new estate paves over all green land/parks. The new estates in Canada seem to add park land, paths, cycle paths. They seem to recognise that people actually like to go outside.

- Weather doesn't bother us greatly. To be honest, so long as we get a mix of warm heat/snowy weather that's all we care about. We don't mind wind, snow, etc. We've heard of Chinooks.

I've only experienced the summer which was very nice. However I am under no illusion that the winters are going to be hard. There's no minding snow and then there's month 4 of digging out a car to drive to work at 6 am in the morning at -20. That's a side I can see will grate.

I know you're thinking permanent residence but I would seriously consider the IEC. Express Entry is a serious undertaking both in time and finance. IEC is ridiculously easy to apply for.

Think:

Express entry (federal skilled worker route): 6 months of your time, a huge application form, £2-3000 spent, 6 months for the VISA plus £11,000 ish in the bank if you don't have a job.

vs

IEC, application can be completed in under 10 minutes, plus I think there's a small fee if you're chosen.

Vulcanoid

Welcome!
You currently qualify for the IEC programme, which would allow you to move to Canada for two years, and try it out. This is done by random draw. Although you'd have to hope you both got invitations, if you are married, or have been living together for over 1 year, then if one of you gets a permit, and then a skilled job, the other can get an open work permit off the back of that.
Ehh. Eeeeeeeehhh. OK. This is... I don't want to do them down in any way. But you have picked (by far) the most conservative Province in Canada. Alberta's refusal to allow same sex marriage was (as I recall) the direct catalyst for federal legislation to force its legality across the country. Canada has good legislation for LGBT+ people. Alberta .... does what it's required to do by federal law.

Obviously, if you wind up in Edmonton or Calgary, they're large cities, which tends to lead to a degree more social liberalism than you find in the boonies. But last time I was in Calgary (about 3 years ago), there were two gay bars, which were open a couple of nights a week. In a city of over a million people. You may very well find that people are open, and welcoming, but understand that Canada is a large country. Vancouver and Montreal are some of the best places in the world to be a same sex couple, but the reputation they give off doesn't necessarily extend across the piste.

One of the biggest cultural changes for Brits moving to Canada is the discovery of what 'outdoors', 'rural', and driving times generally mean. For Alberta, Calgary and Edmonton are about as far apart as London and Manchester. I'm sure you can find places that give you what you want, but you might find you readjust your ideas of what you're actually looking for. It's pretty hard in england to be as far away from anything as almost everything is in Canada.

In addition, if you want a small town, see above for attitudes. (NB I am NOT saying you're going to be lynched on arrival in a small town. But you have a statistically raised chance of people thinking you're going to Hell, and meaning it. On the bright side, being Canadian, they'll probably still smile at your face).

Alberta's oil and gas industry has collapsed in recent years. The province has just officially left a multi-year recession due to a 90% fall in the price of oil, 100k jobs were lost directly in the oil patch, with more knock-on from their reduced economic activity (in a Province of only 4m) and even though oil prices are slowly recovering, the jobs are being replaced by automation.

Well, that felt more negative than I meant to be I suppose my larger point is - it's good that you're doing research. But you need to make sure your eyes are open, and be willing to hear some things you might not want to.

I see you've already expressed concern about an IEC permit, but it's really the best way to get out there, and see if it lives up to what you want it to be. In addition, it might help you to get the points you need to qualify for residency. Have you used the points calculator online to see where you stand with that?

Chloepleass

First off, thank you SO much for such a helpful post!
I appreciate your honesty in all factors - your advice was exactly why I signed up to this forum to create this thread. Your heads-up for Vancouver and Montreal will definitely make me consider these locations a touch more. We haven't traveled to either.

The IEC permit is definitely interesting me further what with all of your comments from this thread - as soon as I'm home I'm going to research this in a lot more depth!
We have both done separate calculators and each got scores of 95.

christmasoompa

I think that must be the Federal Skilled Worker score (at least, I hope it is!!).

We're referring to the CRS score, which is the 2nd step in the process. If you score enough to qualify as FSW's (which it seems you do from the above), then you can apply to enter the Express Entry pool of applicants. But once in that pool, only those scoring enough are selected and invited to apply for PR, so that's the other score you need to check - Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) tool - Skilled immigrants (Express Entry)

Do it for both of you, and do it as if you've met the requirements i.e. you've taken an English exam (you can assume max points as native speakers), and had your education assessed.

Hopefully you'll score enough so that you can apply for PR straight away if that's what you decide to do, but if not then at least you know the IEC is a great back up option.

HTH.

Chloepleass

What a fantastic, detailed response. I will be sure to keep re-visiting this post to reinforce all of the points you have made.

We are actually hoping to take a holiday to the area later this year and will definitely keep the points you've made in mind as we take a look around!

Good luck with your moving process! I would love to hear how your process goes if you're making a thread somewhere, perhaps?

On another note, I am truly grateful for all of the honest posts I have received from everyone on this thread so far. Thanks everyone!

Chloepleass

Correct! Haha, oops! My apologies!

This part of your response was a very interesting read to me - I hadn't actually done this test before your post.
I just took it and gained a grand total of 453.

Shakyuk

If you're taking a trip then try and get out for the Stampede, it was great! We hired a car and just stayed in Motel type hotels when doing the drive.

Hopefully I'll get a visa later this year and I'll update how things go.

Best of luck with your move. It's a great forum and a wealth of knowledge, keep us informed on how you get on

christmasoompa

Phew. If you were scoring 95 on the CRS, you'd really be in trouble.

453 should be good enough to get you PR without a job offer, the lowest the points level has gone to is about 435 irrc, but you can check it on the CIC website. So at 453 you might not get an invite straight away, but it should happen for you if you do decide to go down that route.

Best of luck.

Almost Canadian

I have to admit that I don't fully agree with the descriptions of Alberta, and particularly Calgary, that have been stated above.

I used to work for a law firm that had 50% of its partnership, and about 70% of the non-lawyers, that were openly gay. While I am sure that there are homophobes in Alberta, I don't believe that you will find a greater proportion in Calgary than you would in most places in England.

If you haven't been to Alberta, you will not know that "cities" in Alberta are very different to "cities" in England. There is nothing like the density of England and, whilst most of Calgary could not accurately be described as "rural", it is far less "built up" than most villages in England.

I live on 20 acres 15 mins south east of Calgary's city limits. I work downtown which is a commute of approximately 65 kms. I drive 15 mins to the south of the city and then take a train to downtown. The train journey is 40 mins or so. I am only able to do this as I travel prior to the rush hour traffic. In rush hour, I would add another 20 mins to my journey, simply because of the access to the train station where I park. Travelling home always takes around 20 minutes whatever time I travel, simply because of the layout of the roads I travel on (most of them are 110 km highway).

My kids have been to both city schools and rural schools. They have had gay friends in each and, as far as they are concerned, they are simply other students. They were 4 and 6 when we moved here so, essentially, have been raised "Canadian."

Generally, people in and around Calgary don't care what your sexual orientation is, what colour you are, or where you are from. They do expect you to work hard and to simply get on with life.

I am sure you will do just fine as soon as you have worked out how to immigrate here.

cheeky_monkey

Having lived in both Edmonton and then Calgary and now back again in Edmonton...for your age group and orientation then i would choose Calgary over Edmonton...Calgary has more going for it in terms of entertainment and has a more vibrant downtown area which is is more cosmopolitan and a bit more boho than Edmonton also Calgary wins as the Rockies are literally on your doorstep.

If you like the country and western scene then you will be sorted

dbd33

I'm not in Alberta but in rural Ontario. I'm straight but have been to parties and a wedding reception at this local facility:

The Ridge | Your Alternative Gay Resort

I know some local people who are regulars there.

Alberta has mountains, Ontario does not. Ontario does however have a gay indifferent rural population, I know of two same sex couples who have moved to the country and keep horses and chickens and whatnot. It may be that you visit Alberta love it and stay forever. If so, good luck. If not, don't think there's no place for you in rural Canada.