old.sparkles

I'm at a loss - somewhere between FFS and 'words fail me'

Beoz

I am at a loss as well. Now it takes me hours to discipline my own son. No wonder my parents had so much spare time on their hands. A quick swift whack and life moved on.

old.sparkles

Teaching kids respect and discipline is not really what was mentioned though which was bullying and related suicides. Getting a back hand / cane / etc as a form of discipline is not sustained bullying.

Beoz

Bullying. ....... plenty of that. I went to a boys school ...... that's the top subject at a boys school. The only deaths I am aware of from my class of about 200 is a guy that died in a plane crash and a couple of heart failures. No suicides. And oddly, no gay guys that I am aware of which is kind of weird.

Amazulu

Spare the rod, spoil the child

Iron, unflinching discipline is the way to go - get the little shits quaking

GarryP

Not even male members of the dance and drama club?

Mightn't it be you were oblivious ....

The reason I mentioned the lack of suicides mentioned is that I can't remember a one. I can remember two murders though, and you'd think that would be less likely. Sure there's social media, etc. but nothing saying bullying like getting a fist in the face etc.

Difficult to find good data on this, but the suggestion is not that there are more now than ten years ago, rather that rates rose since the 1950s, then plateaued.


It kind of looks like the suicide<>social media linkage isn't there.

ozzieeagle

Seeing as this debate has been opened, I went to school in a fairly equitable part of South London on the Catford/Forest Hill border, so there were your very tough kids from places like Brockley and Lewisham and there were your almost middle-class kids from the nicer parts of Forest Hill and Sydenham. I think the gay movement in earnest started around Alladin Zane time. Previous to this there were kids that were potentially gay, more like mummies boys than anything else. Thing is back then before the outward advance of the gay movement, these people stayed closed, although in staying closed they were fairly safe in the school community. I doubt if any of those that were on the road to being openly gay killed themselves back then, the pathway was more formal for them, stay quiet until the age of consent. Looking back I reckon I had 3 friends that were probably gay, It just wasn't clear back then.

I'm not saying that's a correct or preferable thing to do, I'm just saying there seemingly was less pressure on gay people back then, and the pressure may well have come from their own outward movement.

The above is just a statement, no wrongs no rights, just the way it was back in the mid 60's to very early 70's.

One thing I will say, that since the trend for "youngsters" to be openly gay has come to the fore, more and more young people seem to be getting bullied and suiciding. Could be their own advancement has been to the younger gays detriment.

Now we have a marriage vote and the lines are even more entrenched.

Beoz

Actually there is one. I only found out last year and it came as no surprise.

He was actually a rugby prop. He would not have know what the drama club was.

GarryP

Painting a target on your back as a habit of doing that.

And I'm not sure the figures even suggest there is more bullying and suicide in recent decades, more that there is a desire to paint it that way and there has always been a risk associated with being at variance to society. Hell, the biggest variance seems to be between men and women - which given the relative prevalence in society ends up being the bigger issue (the body on the slab is more likely to be a white, hetrosexual male).

GarryP

Oh, and it looks like the man nutting Abbott was not doing it because of gay marriage, but because he had the opportunity to nut Abbott and thought he deserved it ....

Tony Abbott: Hobart DJ Astro 'Funknukl' Labe charged over alleged headbutt assault of former PM - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

moneypenny20

Ignoring the comments about bullying because I can't work out if you're being serious or not and if you are then my head is about to explode and I'm not going there.

This is, imo, written in a negative tone (sure that's not how you mean it, just how it reads to me). 'Openly gay' is an obnoxious term. Are you openly heterosexual or perhaps you just happily live your life, going out with your wife? People are people, regardless of what or who they do in the privacy of their own homes. Using terms like 'openly gay' 'same sex marriage' and 'gay marriage' reinforces the idea that 'they' are different and should be treated differently. 'They' are humans who deserve equality with other humans. ** Lines entrenched ** Wtf???????

It's not a 'trend', it's people wanting, and more importantly, expecting to be able to live their lives like you do. I will agree that back in the day gays were in the closet, there was no life for them to live their lives as they wanted/needed. Therefore there was much less bullying however even a little research will show that there has always been bullying of gays or people who appeared to be queer or pansies.

The problem isn't with LGBTIs living their lives, it's with some heterosexuals who for whatever reason believe they are somehow superior and it's ok to abuse people not like them. The kid being bullied isn't the one at fault. The fault is with the bully and the bully's parents. Sadly those parents are of our generation. Everyone likes to blame 'kids these days'. These kids have been taught their shit behaviour by their parents - people in their 40s/50s/60s.

Beoz

Meanwhile. Changed my mind. Will vote no. Marriage = same sex ..... forever. Doesn't sound very interesting.

spouse of scouse

It's the Great Australian Barbie BE style, MP. Where men are men, a good beating is character building, and being shunned, teased and laughed at by your peers until your life is constant misery is normal, so toughen up princess.

Hence the reason why only a small group of like-minded people regularly attend BE barbies. Most of us have better places to be

ozzieeagle

I think the whole situation with marriage equality could be far better served if it were possible to make sure that everyone in a partnership was simply given fully legal equal rights. I'm sure the vast majority of people would accept that fully.

Maybe society as a whole needs to remove Marriage as an institution after all plenty think it has little value in today's society.

Can those that are fully 100pct in favour of marriage equality please explain to me why polygamy isn't or shouldn't be on the table as well ?

I've got to add as an edit, that the people on the yes side, seem to be, nay are far nicer, more balanced and fairer than people on the no.

scrubbedexpat098

Wow this last page has been an eye opener. Dismissing bullying with a 'toughen up Princess' is pretty low. My cousin made this one lad's life a bloody misery at primary school, knocked him about to the point of drawing blood on an at least weekly basis.

When I went to secondary school there were afew so called hard men who only ever seemed to victimise the smaller lads (funny that), but I steered clear of that for the most part.

It was my turn at Grammar school though, 2 of them. My crime?? I was the council house kid in a largely middle class environment. That was 3 years of shite for me, used to get knocked about by one and constantly put down and ganged up on by the other and his posh goons. You know I would even get detention or walk all the 5 miles home to avoid getting the bus, and I volunteered for community service rather than games (You'd get knocked about with hocky sticks all above board and with intent to maim)

I left before the 6th form, ****ed most of my exams up and left as soon as possible.

Got into an apprenticeship when I left school, started earning, did the learning I never did at school and once I passed in 1990, I met my wife to be.

Things got fairly serious fairly quickly, and it was time to meet her parents (a pretty well to do family). Her younger brother, lovely fella, ended up being my apprentice 2 years later.

Her older brother, lo and behold was one of my bullies from Grammar school. Still a typical toffee nosed twat, he no longer had the high ground. I could almost hear his insides crumble when I shook his hand, pulled him closer a la Trump, and whispered 'I'm ****ing your sister' It was beautiful.

Now I've got that off my chest, dismissing bullying as just a bit of harmless nipple twisting and wedgies, may just have been the class bully. I specialize in bullies now , they're the people I hate most in the world and call them out whenever I see them.

Peace to all