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Old Oct 3rd 2017, 1:34 am   #166
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
You're joking right? People who have been abused and victimised for years, find themselves having to ask complete strangers if it's ok for them to be treated equally in every way and they shouldn't get a bit shirty about it? They should be dignified whilst complete strangers are encouraged to abuse and attack them and call them all manner of obscene names whilst watching the likes of Tony Abbott mouth off about them? Who, in the name of sanity, would stay dignified in that scenario?
No I'm not joking, it's 2017 and most people were always going to vote yes, even those on the fence would see the religious rantings from the no campaign, realise they were insane and they'd vote yes. Tony Abbott was only ever going to be supported by previously existing Abbott fans, he didn't win anymore support through what ie was blabbing.

The fact that it went to a vote in the first place must have been pretty undignifying, but to expect them to then earn my vote too? Let's get this done should have been their one and only slogan, then trust the Australian people to recognise intolerance and bullshit where they see it. Your average gay man on the street felt the same I would bet.
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Old Oct 3rd 2017, 1:40 am   #167
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
No I'm not joking, it's 2017 and most people were always going to vote yes, even those on the fence would see the religious rantings from the no campaign, realise they were insane and they'd vote yes. Tony Abbott was only ever going to be supported by previously existing Abbott fans, he didn't win anymore support through what ie was blabbing.

The fact that it went to a vote in the first place must have been pretty undignifying, but to expect them to then earn my vote too? Let's get this done should have been their one and only slogan, then trust the Australian people to recognise intolerance and bullshit where they see it. Your average gay man on the street felt the same I would bet.
Only guessing but I imagine most of the anger from the yes side came from friends and relatives rather than the LGBTI folk. Sick to death of their loved ones being treated like shit. I don't know why you'd think they should trust 'the Australian people' when so many of them are patently against equality.
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Old Oct 3rd 2017, 1:57 am   #168
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
Only guessing but I imagine most of the anger from the yes side came from friends and relatives rather than the LGBTI folk. Sick to death of their loved ones being treated like shit. I don't know why you'd think they should trust 'the Australian people' when so many of them are patently against equality.
Tony Abbott doesn't seem angry about the effect on his family. TA has a point, you may not agree with it, I may not agree with it, but its still a point none the less.

Tony Abbott on why same sex marriage would fundamentally change society
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Old Oct 3rd 2017, 2:07 am   #169
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
Only guessing but I imagine most of the anger from the yes side came from friends and relatives rather than the LGBTI folk. Sick to death of their loved ones being treated like shit. I don't know why you'd think they should trust 'the Australian people' when so many of them are patently against equality.
I think you underestimate the Australian people. Gay people are not, on the whole bullied and demonised the way they once were, it's 2017 not 1950. Any that I know personally are pretty much of the mind that they thought we were past all this. No-one bats an eyelid nowadays, let alone treats them like shit for the most part.

Before you tell me that gay people still get abused because of their sexuality I know that is true, but then people get the shit kicked out of them for wearing a different colour football shirt, or for going to a different school. Some people are just arseholes, but nowhere near enough for a no win. (And just to clarify, I'm not saying all no voters are arseholes too, far from it)
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Old Oct 3rd 2017, 5:36 am   #170
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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Only guessing but I imagine most of the anger from the yes side came from friends and relatives rather than the LGBTI folk.
That makes it okay then

Plenty of anger and intolerance on both sides from what I can see
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Old Oct 3rd 2017, 5:39 am   #171
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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I think you underestimate the Australian people. Gay people are not, on the whole bullied and demonised the way they once were, it's 2017 not 1950. Any that I know personally are pretty much of the mind that they thought we were past all this. No-one bats an eyelid nowadays, let alone treats them like shit for the most part.

Before you tell me that gay people still get abused because of their sexuality I know that is true, but then people get the shit kicked out of them for wearing a different colour football shirt, or for going to a different school. Some people are just arseholes, but nowhere near enough for a no win. (And just to clarify, I'm not saying all no voters are arseholes too, far from it)
Agree. It annoys me that many want to portray Australia as a backward, intolerant and racist country when the opposite is true

This is going to be a yes vote - and it always was going to be. I wish that wasn't the case but that's democracy - you go with what the majority decide
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Old Oct 5th 2017, 2:01 am   #172
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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This is going to be a yes vote - and it always was going to be. I wish that wasn't the case but that's democracy - you go with what the majority decide
It's not so clear to me that it will definitely be "yes". It is clear that nowadays polls do not accurately reflect real voting intentions, and this is one of those things where I think lies about voting intentions in the name of virtue signalling (or being ashamed to state one's real opinion) are readily being told to pollsters.
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Old Oct 5th 2017, 2:42 am   #173
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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It is clear that nowadays polls do not accurately reflect real voting intentions
I don't think it's that clear...but certainly the message has got out there that some major recent events reflect that.

Brexit: if you look at the opinion polls in the 2 months leading up to the vote the were basically split 50/50 according to which answer was leading. The final result is not dramatically different from the opinion polls.

Trump: polls gave Clinton an average nationwide lead of about 3.5%. She ended up with a popular vote lead of 2.1%. Again, the final result is not drastically different from the polls.

You could maybe make more of a case about the UK election...although the trend in opinion polls from the time May called the election seems to be pretty accurate too.
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Old Oct 5th 2017, 3:18 am   #174
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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I don't think it's that clear...but certainly the message has got out there that some major recent events reflect that.

Brexit: if you look at the opinion polls in the 2 months leading up to the vote the were basically split 50/50 according to which answer was leading. The final result is not dramatically different from the opinion polls.

Trump: polls gave Clinton an average nationwide lead of about 3.5%. She ended up with a popular vote lead of 2.1%. Again, the final result is not drastically different from the polls.

You could maybe make more of a case about the UK election...although the trend in opinion polls from the time May called the election seems to be pretty accurate too.
Reminds me of an old episode of Steptoe & Son, when Harold went round canvassing for Labour, everyone said they'd vote Labour. When Albert did the same for Conservative, everyone said they were voting conservative.
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Old Oct 5th 2017, 12:46 pm   #175
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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I don't think it's that clear...but certainly the message has got out there that some major recent events reflect that.

Brexit: if you look at the opinion polls in the 2 months leading up to the vote the were basically split 50/50 according to which answer was leading. The final result is not dramatically different from the opinion polls.

Trump: polls gave Clinton an average nationwide lead of about 3.5%. She ended up with a popular vote lead of 2.1%. Again, the final result is not drastically different from the polls.

You could maybe make more of a case about the UK election...although the trend in opinion polls from the time May called the election seems to be pretty accurate too.
Agree and I think that the margin in favour of yes is too big for it to be wrong
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Old Oct 5th 2017, 10:40 pm   #176
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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Agree and I think that the margin in favour of yes is too big for it to be wrong
Cynical ****er that I am, I can't help thinking that some of the less scrupulous opinion polls are no better than Nazi propaganda in so much as their sole purpose to make people think their cause is a lost one.

A friend of mine texted me last night urging me to get my yes vote in. She was at a calling party apparently. I'm not entirely sure what this sort of thing is supposed to achieve to be honest.

Just as an aside, I popped down the road to post our votes a while back, and said to my son about doing his vote and I'd post his too. Although I was rushing him a bit I made a point of saying I wouldn't think any less of him if he voted no. My daughter on the other hand told her boyfriend that they had no future together if he voted no, I told her she was being a dick and he threw his voting slip in the bin.

As with Brexit, no voters (outies) are being singled out for abuse, and it's a face of 'tolerance' that I find incredibly sad.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 12:48 am   #177
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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As with Brexit, no voters (outies) are being singled out for abuse, and it's a face of 'tolerance' that I find incredibly sad.
no voters (outies) are being singled out for abuse

no voters (outies) are being singled out for abuse

no voters (outies) are being singled out for abuse

no voters (outies) are being singled out for abuse

no voters (outies) are being singled out for abuse

Yeah, it's appalling.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 1:48 am   #178
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

This backs up my assertion that the yes campaign were best off letting the no's get on with it and recruit yes votes for them. But no, any openly no voters on my social media have been absolutely trollied to the point of bullying.

I don't recall any instances of yes voters shitting on anyones doorstep, but then I didn't know about the ones you enlightened me with either.

I voted yes because I felt it was the right thing to do, not because anyone told be I'd be a homophobe otherwise or some prick sent me a text, but for some strange reason though I'm letting everyone else make up their own minds and not getting in their face about it.

The only thing missing when I told my friend I'd voted yes was a pat on the head and a 'who's a good boy?', not even that would be enough for me to change my mind to be fair but I do find it quite insulting when someone tells me my vote is right or wrong. It's MY vote, and it's right for ME, their opinion is irrelevant.

Looks like you triggered me
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 10:24 pm   #179
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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I voted yes because I felt it was the right thing to do, not because anyone told be I'd be a homophobe otherwise or some prick sent me a text, but for some strange reason though I'm letting everyone else make up their own minds and not getting in their face about it.
I voted yes because i) I believe it is the right thing to do; ii) what people do within the context of a loving, legal relationship is absolutely nothing to do with me; iii) I believe that all should be treated equally in the eyes of the law; iv) even if i-iii didn't exist, then the No campaign, which has striven to make it about anything except marriage equality, would have infuriated me to vote yes instead of just raging about it on FB.

Please remember, those campaigners for marriage equality did not want a plebiscite or a survey or any of this. They wanted a parliamentary free vote on the issue. So of course, those who this affects, either directly or indirectly, are having to be passionate about this cause. They (or their loved ones) will finally be able to marry if they choose, with all the legal and social benefits that will bring. Do you really think they wouldn't campaign for something that will affect them?

Yes, the No campaign have done themselves no favours, but the Yes campaign have to be prominent otherwise fence sitters and the No campaign will declare that it obviously means nothing to them, so why bother giving it to them?

I know you're a Yes voter, as you've said most eloquently on this thread but that you'd have been fine if your children had voted No - I wouldn't. I would have respected their right to their own opinion, of course, and I probably wouldn't have said anything to them; but I would have been so disappointed that they'd been unable to see that this vote is nothing to do with heterosexual people, because it won't affect heterosexual people in any way.

How is it anything other than bigoted to vote No? Bigoted means 'obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people's beliefs and practices'. Synonyms for bigoted include 'prejudiced, biased, partial, one-sided, sectarian, discriminatory'. (Yes, we can all google )
How does any of that NOT describe someone who votes no simply because they don't want others to have the same marriage rights as they do?

If the question had been 'Do you think that all legal relationships should be treated equally in the eyes of the law?', do you think that would have made any difference to the fence sitters? Because of course it would have made no difference to the fervent No campaigners.

Looks like you triggered me
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Old Oct 7th 2017, 12:31 pm   #180
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Default Re: The Yes No vote

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Originally Posted by Dreamy View Post
I voted yes because i) I believe it is the right thing to do; ii) what people do within the context of a loving, legal relationship is absolutely nothing to do with me; iii) I believe that all should be treated equally in the eyes of the law; iv) even if i-iii didn't exist, then the No campaign, which has striven to make it about anything except marriage equality, would have infuriated me to vote yes instead of just raging about it on FB.

Please remember, those campaigners for marriage equality did not want a plebiscite or a survey or any of this. They wanted a parliamentary free vote on the issue. So of course, those who this affects, either directly or indirectly, are having to be passionate about this cause. They (or their loved ones) will finally be able to marry if they choose, with all the legal and social benefits that will bring. Do you really think they wouldn't campaign for something that will affect them?

Yes, the No campaign have done themselves no favours, but the Yes campaign have to be prominent otherwise fence sitters and the No campaign will declare that it obviously means nothing to them, so why bother giving it to them?

I know you're a Yes voter, as you've said most eloquently on this thread but that you'd have been fine if your children had voted No - I wouldn't. I would have respected their right to their own opinion, of course, and I probably wouldn't have said anything to them; but I would have been so disappointed that they'd been unable to see that this vote is nothing to do with heterosexual people, because it won't affect heterosexual people in any way.

How is it anything other than bigoted to vote No? Bigoted means 'obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people's beliefs and practices'. Synonyms for bigoted include 'prejudiced, biased, partial, one-sided, sectarian, discriminatory'. (Yes, we can all google )
How does any of that NOT describe someone who votes no simply because they don't want others to have the same marriage rights as they do?

If the question had been 'Do you think that all legal relationships should be treated equally in the eyes of the law?', do you think that would have made any difference to the fence sitters? Because of course it would have made no difference to the fervent No campaigners.

Looks like you triggered me
This.
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