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Old Aug 6th 2016, 8:30 pm   #106
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Default Re: The world of automation

But they haven't actually generated any extra income. They've just taken income away from licensed drivers and passed it onto unlicensed drivers.

Kind of like saying that the gov't has given over a gazillion people globally an income... by not charging them GST on purchases entering Australia.
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Old Aug 6th 2016, 11:31 pm   #107
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Can you give me some global unemployment rising cases? Of course you could start with basket cases like Greece and Venezuela. Nothing to do with tech or automation of course.
That's very naive. Technology had a lot to do with the GFC. Just think of how easy it was to approve loans for mortgages. In fact, that's very relevant today where it's based on more algorithms and fewer reference checks.

Planned obsolescence in technology also leads to more consumer spending and, inevitably debt.
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Old Aug 7th 2016, 1:40 am   #108
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Default Re: The world of automation

The inevitable is becoming closer and closer...........


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Old Aug 7th 2016, 8:13 am   #109
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Default Re: The world of automation

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But they haven't actually generated any extra income. They've just taken income away from licensed drivers and passed it onto unlicensed drivers.

Kind of like saying that the gov't has given over a gazillion people globally an income... by not charging them GST on purchases entering Australia.
Have they actually taken jobs from licensed drivers? That's the luddite fallacy messing with you.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6717/economics/the-luddite-fallacy/

What Uber do is make taxi's more accessible for more people offering a better service at a cheaper rate. More people are now using taxi services to move about.
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Old Aug 7th 2016, 8:16 am   #110
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Default Re: The world of automation

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That's very naive. Technology had a lot to do with the GFC. Just think of how easy it was to approve loans for mortgages. In fact, that's very relevant today where it's based on more algorithms and fewer reference checks.

Planned obsolescence in technology also leads to more consumer spending and, inevitably debt.
So the robots caused the GFC. Really? Come off it. It was the banks ability to provide cheap money without laws in place to allow accountability on defaults. Are you saying loans should be manually processed, paper filed away and never stored electronically? Ho ho ho.
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Old Aug 7th 2016, 9:18 am   #111
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Default Re: The world of automation

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So the robots caused the GFC. Really? Come off it. It was the banks ability to provide cheap money without laws in place to allow accountability on defaults. Are you saying loans should be manually processed, paper filed away and never stored electronically? Ho ho ho.
Actually, it was more maths that was to blame.

The layering of risk that allowed sub prime and CDOs to blow up the economy was created by things like Black-Scholes which suggested the ability to quantify risk of collections of assets. However, the problem was the financial sharks and economists didn't really read the packet properly and understand they were only valid for independent events - which the mortgage defaults weren't.

So they were all happy that the defaults couldn't screw the system and lose them money, when the reality was that a systemic crash would make all loans dependent, and the pricing equations invalid.

So in some ways it was 'automation', in that the sane assessment of risk was given over to some computer code without those doing it actually knowing what they were doing (and they still didn't go to jail as they should). Another example was the numbnuts having the Tesla autopilot driving the car, rather than understanding that it was only there to assist - whilst he was watching a DVD, and then losing his head.

I'm sure we will have many more instances of people misusing AI and automation - and things going wrong as a result.

Artificial Intelligence vs Human Stupidty.

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Old Aug 7th 2016, 9:37 am   #112
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
So the robots caused the GFC. Really? Come off it. It was the banks ability to provide cheap money without laws in place to allow accountability on defaults. Are you saying loans should be manually processed, paper filed away and never stored electronically? Ho ho ho.
You should decide what you actually think. Technology had no part to play in the GFC because it was down to the bankers but technology can only be praised for creating jobs?

Does coal make jobs? Coal just sits in the ground minding its own business. The demand for coal creates the jobs. Technology is created but does not necessarily result in job growth. My job doesn't exist because of the technology. It exists because of the demand for what the company sells.

Also, just to clarify something as you seem to have arrived at a conclusion without me leading you to. I don't have any grudge against technology. It's just pure honest creativity. Nothing wrong with that. But (and please read carefully) does a scientist who creates the next big WMD but with no duty or desire to use it have nothing to do with its use in war? Does the WMD itself have nothing to do with destruction? Sure, people pull the trigger or press the button but if countries were fighting with sticks and stones then the destruction would be much smaller.
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Old Aug 7th 2016, 1:22 pm   #113
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Have they actually taken jobs from licensed drivers? That's the luddite fallacy messing with you.

The Luddite Fallacy | Economics Help

What Uber do is make taxi's more accessible for more people offering a better service at a cheaper rate. More people are now using taxi services to move about.
No, it's basically taking income from one person and giving it to someone else. So a licensed driver loses a customer, an unlicensed customer gains one for less money... and Uber gets a piece of the action.

Everyone I know who uses Uber is treating them as an alternative to taxis. Kind of like a cheap petrol station opening up is simply going to take business away from other stations.

This isn't some sort of technological revolution you're talking about. As I mentioned, you don't seriously believe they would be allowed to function if the company was formed by a bunch of computer geeks in Andorra as opposed to being incorporated in the US?
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Old Aug 7th 2016, 7:10 pm   #114
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Originally Posted by astera View Post
No, it's basically taking income from one person and giving it to someone else. So a licensed driver loses a customer, an unlicensed customer gains one for less money... and Uber gets a piece of the action.

Everyone I know who uses Uber is treating them as an alternative to taxis. Kind of like a cheap petrol station opening up is simply going to take business away from other stations.

This isn't some sort of technological revolution you're talking about. As I mentioned, you don't seriously believe they would be allowed to function if the company was formed by a bunch of computer geeks in Andorra as opposed to being incorporated in the US?
That's the Luddite Fallacy messing with you.

I guess Uber doesn't exist in the Caymans so I guess that's why you reference friends.

But Uber, because of technology allows you to pull out your phone and in 3 clicks has a car at your door. The ride is cheap, friendly, clean, and gets you to your destination easily as the driver uses the app for directions. No need for cash either. Just get out and go. There's tech working to give the user an experience that makes them want more.

So this means more people are likely to take cabs. Uber means cabs are in reach for more people. More people, more rides, more money circulating, more drivers, more demand.

As for the existing, sure its going to suffer, traditional mini cab drivers in London are leaving for Uber. Its not costing jobs, its shifting and adding to them elsewhere. That's the concept the liddites miss.
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Old Aug 7th 2016, 7:12 pm   #115
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Originally Posted by knockoff nige View Post
You should decide what you actually think. Technology had no part to play in the GFC because it was down to the bankers but technology can only be praised for creating jobs?

Does coal make jobs? Coal just sits in the ground minding its own business. The demand for coal creates the jobs. Technology is created but does not necessarily result in job growth. My job doesn't exist because of the technology. It exists because of the demand for what the company sells.

Also, just to clarify something as you seem to have arrived at a conclusion without me leading you to. I don't have any grudge against technology. It's just pure honest creativity. Nothing wrong with that. But (and please read carefully) does a scientist who creates the next big WMD but with no duty or desire to use it have nothing to do with its use in war? Does the WMD itself have nothing to do with destruction? Sure, people pull the trigger or press the button but if countries were fighting with sticks and stones then the destruction would be much smaller.
I have already decided what I think. No questions to be answered there.
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Old Aug 8th 2016, 1:54 pm   #116
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Default Re: The world of automation

Closer to the inevitable everyday.......


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Old Aug 8th 2016, 2:03 pm   #117
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Tesla who are doing a truck load of R&D into automated transport went from 899 employees in 2010 to 14,000 today.

Automation creates jobs
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Old Aug 8th 2016, 2:11 pm   #118
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Tesla who are doing a truck load of R&D into automated transport went from 899 employees in 2010 to 14,000 today.

Automation creates jobs


Surprisingly from my POV I reckon the Jury is out.

However if it doesn't then we are going to "have" to do this........ Which wont sit with you well at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...come-uk-greens
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Old Aug 8th 2016, 2:28 pm   #119
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Surprisingly from my POV I reckon the Jury is out.

However if it doesn't then we are going to "have" to do this........ Which wont sit with you well at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...come-uk-greens
We already do "this". Its called the dole.

The difference is this "and keep any earnings they make from work on top of that. Their monthly pay will not be means-tested. They will instead have the security of that cash every month, and the option to decide whether they want to add to that by finding work. "

That's gotta upset the lefties. Rich people get paid like the poor.
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Old Aug 8th 2016, 11:34 pm   #120
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Tesla who are doing a truck load of R&D into automated transport went from 899 employees in 2010 to 14,000 today.

Automation creates jobs
Thanks to Abbott and the unique way he supports jobs in Australia. 199,000 jobs are being lost in Australia alone.

You do realise Elon Musk is heavily into robots for the production line, and even 'the machine that builds machines'? If you want to up production speed 10x you can get a robot that works 10x as fast. You can't get a human to do that.

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