The world of automation
#1171
Re: The world of automation
I see there's a 1985 film by the same name. Can't believe I was unaware of that film given my vintage (roughly the same as the then hot chick that appeared in the film). How did I miss that?! Might have to watch it someday, although probably a bit creepy for my tastes.
#1172
Re: The world of automation
Not bad, but none the wiser.
I see there's a 1985 film by the same name. Can't believe I was unaware of that film given my vintage (roughly the same as the then hot chick that appeared in the film). How did I miss that?! Might have to watch it someday, although probably a bit creepy for my tastes.
I see there's a 1985 film by the same name. Can't believe I was unaware of that film given my vintage (roughly the same as the then hot chick that appeared in the film). How did I miss that?! Might have to watch it someday, although probably a bit creepy for my tastes.
I don't think science has come up with a theory for defining exactly what life is yet.... Will AI? Is AI capable at is infinite best of becoming alive? It may develop self-awareness at some distant point, but is that life?
Nothing to do with religion or spirituality .... Just Lifeforce.
#1173
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,765
Re: The world of automation
I agree with above the dangers inherent that we loose our humanity. In the sense of what it is to be human. Will people even care?
#1174
Re: The world of automation
Found this interesting plot of the level of manufacturing automation in different countries :
Australia can be seen to be (just) above the average line (and just above the UK) but well, well, behind on the leaders. Is that resistance to automation, or just lack of investment? Either way, so much for the hubris of 'the clever country', and if this tracks with other forms of automation Australia is well behind in being able to be competitive with SE Asian neighbours, or europe.
Australia can be seen to be (just) above the average line (and just above the UK) but well, well, behind on the leaders. Is that resistance to automation, or just lack of investment? Either way, so much for the hubris of 'the clever country', and if this tracks with other forms of automation Australia is well behind in being able to be competitive with SE Asian neighbours, or europe.
#1175
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The world of automation
Found this interesting plot of the level of manufacturing automation in different countries :
https://ifr.org/img/uploads/Robot_de...try_page_1.jpg
Australia can be seen to be (just) above the average line (and just above the UK) but well, well, behind on the leaders. Is that resistance to automation, or just lack of investment? Either way, so much for the hubris of 'the clever country', and if this tracks with other forms of automation Australia is well behind in being able to be competitive with SE Asian neighbours, or europe.
https://ifr.org/img/uploads/Robot_de...try_page_1.jpg
Australia can be seen to be (just) above the average line (and just above the UK) but well, well, behind on the leaders. Is that resistance to automation, or just lack of investment? Either way, so much for the hubris of 'the clever country', and if this tracks with other forms of automation Australia is well behind in being able to be competitive with SE Asian neighbours, or europe.
Interesting to see the big automation giants like South Korea and Germany have very low unemployment rates too.
#1176
Re: The world of automation
Seems to me there is a correlation, at least for manufacturing automation - so maybe Australia should push to have more?
It feels like the answer is the countries with sensible management build global class companies which both improves the economy at home, and invest in automation to keep that manufacture at home (rather than it drift off to cheap locations). If you could offset some tax against automation investment in country, then everyone is happy with the result.
Almost sounds like an election policy ...
#1177
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The world of automation
Which came first, the automation because of a low unemployment rate; or a low unemployment rate because the economy was doing well through automation investment?
Seems to me there is a correlation, at least for manufacturing automation - so maybe Australia should push to have more?
It feels like the answer is the countries with sensible management build global class companies which both improves the economy at home, and invest in automation to keep that manufacture at home (rather than it drift off to cheap locations). If you could offset some tax against automation investment in country, then everyone is happy with the result.
Almost sounds like an election policy ...
Seems to me there is a correlation, at least for manufacturing automation - so maybe Australia should push to have more?
It feels like the answer is the countries with sensible management build global class companies which both improves the economy at home, and invest in automation to keep that manufacture at home (rather than it drift off to cheap locations). If you could offset some tax against automation investment in country, then everyone is happy with the result.
Almost sounds like an election policy ...
Automation creates jobs.
#1178
Re: The world of automation
Found this interesting plot of the level of manufacturing automation in different countries :
https://ifr.org/img/uploads/Robot_de...try_page_1.jpg
Australia can be seen to be (just) above the average line (and just above the UK) but well, well, behind on the leaders. Is that resistance to automation, or just lack of investment? Either way, so much for the hubris of 'the clever country', and if this tracks with other forms of automation Australia is well behind in being able to be competitive with SE Asian neighbours, or europe.
https://ifr.org/img/uploads/Robot_de...try_page_1.jpg
Australia can be seen to be (just) above the average line (and just above the UK) but well, well, behind on the leaders. Is that resistance to automation, or just lack of investment? Either way, so much for the hubris of 'the clever country', and if this tracks with other forms of automation Australia is well behind in being able to be competitive with SE Asian neighbours, or europe.
#1179
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,765
Re: The world of automation
All well and good. But without retraining there will be a lot of pain in the transitionary process in which large segments of the population as stands will be unlikely to recover.
The reason being the cost of retraining for one thing, with little government involvement that I detect to date, likely to enable a soft landing.
Weren't we promised big things during the last big change during the eighties, which saw massive change in the industrial environment in the developed world? A lot of areas never recovered and government assistance was minimal at best.
I have seen Germany mentioned. A very different system. Perhaps look at the educational set up there first before comparing with countries like Australia.
Even there, problems have indeed risen, but a decent welfare system helps to keep things together. A study of the displacement and anger, still simmering in the old DDR, (East Germany) is interesting in how populations adapt to change. One clue, it doesn't come cheap.
Of course, Germany a far richer country, could afford to throw serious money at minimising the problem. Just how would Australia manage any rapid change? I suspect for society harmony it will in slow implementation. '
The reason being the cost of retraining for one thing, with little government involvement that I detect to date, likely to enable a soft landing.
Weren't we promised big things during the last big change during the eighties, which saw massive change in the industrial environment in the developed world? A lot of areas never recovered and government assistance was minimal at best.
I have seen Germany mentioned. A very different system. Perhaps look at the educational set up there first before comparing with countries like Australia.
Even there, problems have indeed risen, but a decent welfare system helps to keep things together. A study of the displacement and anger, still simmering in the old DDR, (East Germany) is interesting in how populations adapt to change. One clue, it doesn't come cheap.
Of course, Germany a far richer country, could afford to throw serious money at minimising the problem. Just how would Australia manage any rapid change? I suspect for society harmony it will in slow implementation. '
#1180
Re: The world of automation
All well and good. But without retraining there will be a lot of pain in the transitionary process in which large segments of the population as stands will be unlikely to recover.
The reason being the cost of retraining for one thing, with little government involvement that I detect to date, likely to enable a soft landing.
Weren't we promised big things during the last big change during the eighties, which saw massive change in the industrial environment in the developed world? A lot of areas never recovered and government assistance was minimal at best.
I have seen Germany mentioned. A very different system. Perhaps look at the educational set up there first before comparing with countries like Australia.
Even there, problems have indeed risen, but a decent welfare system helps to keep things together. A study of the displacement and anger, still simmering in the old DDR, (East Germany) is interesting in how populations adapt to change. One clue, it doesn't come cheap.
Of course, Germany a far richer country, could afford to throw serious money at minimising the problem. Just how would Australia manage any rapid change? I suspect for society harmony it will in slow implementation. '
The reason being the cost of retraining for one thing, with little government involvement that I detect to date, likely to enable a soft landing.
Weren't we promised big things during the last big change during the eighties, which saw massive change in the industrial environment in the developed world? A lot of areas never recovered and government assistance was minimal at best.
I have seen Germany mentioned. A very different system. Perhaps look at the educational set up there first before comparing with countries like Australia.
Even there, problems have indeed risen, but a decent welfare system helps to keep things together. A study of the displacement and anger, still simmering in the old DDR, (East Germany) is interesting in how populations adapt to change. One clue, it doesn't come cheap.
Of course, Germany a far richer country, could afford to throw serious money at minimising the problem. Just how would Australia manage any rapid change? I suspect for society harmony it will in slow implementation. '
#1181
Re: The world of automation
Supposed you have a truck driver that gets automated out of a job. What are you going to retrain them for that won't go the same way almost immediately? You aren't going to turn them into app developers, both because of aptitude and because you are talking multiple year courses.
Nobody seems to be seriously looking at this.
#1182
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The world of automation
Worse. The phrase 'retrain' usually means a job that you can teach someone who's just been made redundant in less than 12 weeks. However, these are just the jobs that can often also be automated - what the automation has to 'learn' is limited. So there won't BE any new jobs like that - they will go directly to automated.
Supposed you have a truck driver that gets automated out of a job. What are you going to retrain them for that won't go the same way almost immediately? You aren't going to turn them into app developers, both because of aptitude and because you are talking multiple year courses.
Nobody seems to be seriously looking at this.
Supposed you have a truck driver that gets automated out of a job. What are you going to retrain them for that won't go the same way almost immediately? You aren't going to turn them into app developers, both because of aptitude and because you are talking multiple year courses.
Nobody seems to be seriously looking at this.
#1183
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,765
Re: The world of automation
The cost to society will be formable. The trials and tribulations of managing the upheaval will indeed be formable. Yet another reason Australia has little need to be running a record immigration program.
We have a clueless government, not only disregarding a per cent of the population, but totally unprepared for the changes ahead.
I agree training will be impossible for many. Not a case of lazy, Boez, (as you inferred) but train in what exactly. How to fund a suitable training and many over fifty will likely never work again anyway. In some cases lower in age.
We have an income support system that cannot support claimants longer term, to which even The Chamber Of Commerce, admits to be too low ......
For the sake of social harmony the introduction may be stilted and phrased in but the result is likely to remain the same.
We have a clueless government, not only disregarding a per cent of the population, but totally unprepared for the changes ahead.
I agree training will be impossible for many. Not a case of lazy, Boez, (as you inferred) but train in what exactly. How to fund a suitable training and many over fifty will likely never work again anyway. In some cases lower in age.
We have an income support system that cannot support claimants longer term, to which even The Chamber Of Commerce, admits to be too low ......
For the sake of social harmony the introduction may be stilted and phrased in but the result is likely to remain the same.
#1184
Re: The world of automation
I get the feeling youth unemployment will go crazy.
#1185
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,765
Re: The world of automation
Actually I think Australia may well need a bigger immigration program, but with a concentration on the really highly skilled. If half the population is unemployable, then you are going to need the earnings from those that are to keep things running. And that means high tech creative business, and high tech creative people to make it work. Using nice environment to entice them is a good move.
I get the feeling that it will hit particular job classes, but also it will hit the young. Who is going to pay to train the young into a creative high tech job when they can recruit from those who are already there?
I get the feeling youth unemployment will go crazy.
I get the feeling that it will hit particular job classes, but also it will hit the young. Who is going to pay to train the young into a creative high tech job when they can recruit from those who are already there?
I get the feeling youth unemployment will go crazy.
As we can agree the impact will be severe, just how severe depends on factors like speed of implementation for example. What will be on offer in the nature of retraining. Looking after those unable to reconnect with the 'brave new world' , all things that were not handled especially well during the last change that impacted blue collar workers rather severely, as I've already mentioned.
As you admit, th