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Old Oct 8th 2017, 2:47 am   #946
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Default Re: The world of automation

It's bizarre that on one hand you trumpet 'lamplighters become factory workers' but on the other hand 'spotted teens are indispensible to McDonalds'. Going on to say that the teens are cheap further misses the point, they won't be cheap compared to an automated process. I think the main thing holding fast food back from fully automating is customer expectations. We're simply not used to the idea yet, but in the same way we now accept automated car washes, we will be.

I noticed those big iPad like screens in McDonald's about a year ago. In ours we can order on the screen/kiosk and specify seating area. The food is brought to the table. Last visit, I noticed they are promoting the app where you can go straight to the table and order food from your phone. I think in due course the open kitchen we are all used to seeing will be concealed and then then the robots will move in and displace staff.
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 5:13 am   #947
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Default Re: The world of automation

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It's bizarre that on one hand you trumpet 'lamplighters become factory workers' but on the other hand 'spotted teens are indispensible to McDonalds'. Going on to say that the teens are cheap further misses the point, they won't be cheap compared to an automated process. I think the main thing holding fast food back from fully automating is customer expectations. We're simply not used to the idea yet, but in the same way we now accept automated car washes, we will be.

I noticed those big iPad like screens in McDonald's about a year ago. In ours we can order on the screen/kiosk and specify seating area. The food is brought to the table. Last visit, I noticed they are promoting the app where you can go straight to the table and order food from your phone. I think in due course the open kitchen we are all used to seeing will be concealed and then then the robots will move in and displace staff.
But in your scenario nobody is going to be able to afford McDonalds because nobody is going to have a job

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Old Oct 8th 2017, 6:01 am   #948
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Default Re: The world of automation

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But in your scenario nobody is going to be able to afford McDonalds because nobody is going to have a job

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Some people will have jobs. Some people will simply have income.

No company is simply going to employ people so they can continue to be consumers. Governments, yes, companies no.
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 6:08 am   #949
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Wow, you got just about everything wrong. You really doubled down on that didn't you?

Because a spotty teenager is going to upsell you from medium to large fries? Really? You think their human face is an advantage?

Here, have some expertise :

Or maybe the former head of McDs :

Thing is, rolling out large scale automation will become a political and CAPEX matter. Going softly for the moment reduces those problems. However once the opportunity comes via a strike or minimum wage hike; or just when the stock holders need to be placated over the profit line, well there's these jobs that can be replaced ...



That point about mature business being growth limited within the same model went over your head?



So you think the burger flippers will be kept?

You don't realise that an automated machine will be faster and more flexible with a higher quality output? More like the one on the left vs the one on the right? Consistently and quickly?

https://static.businessinsider.com/i...1200/image.jpg

You accept that the sales part, the bit where you just said the value added was is being automated, and you DON'T think the behind the scenes stuff will be?

Your theory has more holes than the cheese in the Mushroom Swiss burger.
The only thing that remotely addressed the burning questìon about why McD's aren't doing it now when the tech has been available for decades is this.

Thing is, rolling out large scale automation will become a political and CAPEX matter. Going softly for the moment reduces those problems. However once the opportunity comes via a strike or minimum wage hike; or just when the stock holders need to be placated over the profit line, well there's these jobs that can be replaced ...

You really believe McD's are "going softly" because of politics?

Spare us please.

Told you the McD's reference was a bad one.

Find another please.
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 6:11 am   #950
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Some people will have jobs. Some people will simply have income.

No company is simply going to employ people so they can continue to be consumers. Governments, yes, companies no.
You are right. They will shred staff. The first thing to go, when no one has any money to buy product.
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 6:14 am   #951
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Default Re: The world of automation

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You are right. They will shred staff. The first thing to go, when no one has any money to buy product.
Bear in mind that the product will be cheaper.
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 6:42 am   #952
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Bear in mind that the product will be cheaper.
Which product?

Electronic products are today cheaper relative to incomes than what they were in the 80's.

But that didn't stop the likes of Samsung growing their human staff by the masses.

http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/english/features/focus/10285-exponential-growth-number-samsung-electronics-employees-exceeds-300000

You'd think under your theory Samsung staff numbers would be declining, given all the automation Samsung have access to.

Care to explain?
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 7:06 am   #953
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Some people will have jobs. Some people will simply have income.

No company is simply going to employ people so they can continue to be consumers. Governments, yes, companies no.
No consumers, nobody to consume the products and services that virtually all businesses need to happen in order to make and grow profits

An awesome business model

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Old Oct 8th 2017, 7:10 am   #954
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Bear in mind that the product will be cheaper.
The product will be cheaper to produce but will it be cheaper for the consumer (although there will be no consumers in your world)
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 10:25 am   #955
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Which product?

Electronic products are today cheaper relative to incomes than what they were in the 80's.

But that didn't stop the likes of Samsung growing their human staff by the masses.

http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/english/features/focus/10285-exponential-growth-number-samsung-electronics-employees-exceeds-300000

You'd think under your theory Samsung staff numbers would be declining, given all the automation Samsung have access to.

Care to explain?
That's such a weak argument. We all know we're in the midst of an electronics and information boom, so it's natural Samsung employment growth will rise. Ironically, some of the advances in AI are now fuelling this boom in 'smart devices'. Quite a different industry than fast food though, and a bit embarrassing to conflate them.
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 4:03 pm   #956
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Default Re: The world of automation

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That's such a weak argument. We all know we're in the midst of an electronics and information boom, so it's natural Samsung employment growth will rise. Ironically, some of the advances in AI are now fuelling this boom in 'smart devices'. Quite a different industry than fast food though, and a bit embarrassing to conflate them.
Its not an argument. Its a fact.

You still haven't said which product.
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Old Oct 9th 2017, 12:26 pm   #957
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Its not an argument. Its a fact.

You still haven't said which product.
The product at McDonalds is food (so they say).

The problem with your 'facts' is that they are 'whataboutery'. When a specific automated scenario is explained, whether it's fast food or agent software, you ignore the example and, WHAT ABOUT company X that has expanded. That's fine, nobody is contending that innovation doesn't happen and new companies with headcount don't form. What's being suggested is that when you add it all up at a macro level, the losses far exceed the gains.

Going back to basics, truck and delivery drivers, say they are automated (or their hours are cut by 80% if you want to suggest last-mile utilisation) how will these individuals earn a living? What jobs will they do? Hairdresser? Life coach? Genetic engineer? Call center - oops that's been largely automated too.
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Old Oct 10th 2017, 1:53 am   #958
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Default Re: The world of automation

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The product at McDonalds is food (so they say).

The problem with your 'facts' is that they are 'whataboutery'. When a specific automated scenario is explained, whether it's fast food or agent software, you ignore the example and, WHAT ABOUT company X that has expanded. That's fine, nobody is contending that innovation doesn't happen and new companies with headcount don't form. What's being suggested is that when you add it all up at a macro level, the losses far exceed the gains.
There is no 'whataboutery' in the facts. They are facts, they exist. The only 'whataboutery' is in your theory, your 'whataboutery' crystal ball, 1 dimensional theory.

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Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Going back to basics, truck and delivery drivers, say they are automated (or their hours are cut by 80% if you want to suggest last-mile utilisation) how will these individuals earn a living? What jobs will they do? Hairdresser? Life coach? Genetic engineer? Call center - oops that's been largely automated too.
You can answer your own question there. Start by asking yourself what happen to all the manual labour on farms. It might give you a clue.
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Old Oct 10th 2017, 5:05 am   #959
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Default Re: The world of automation

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Originally Posted by Shard View Post
The product at McDonalds is food (so they say).

The problem with your 'facts' is that they are 'whataboutery'. When a specific automated scenario is explained, whether it's fast food or agent software, you ignore the example and, WHAT ABOUT company X that has expanded. That's fine, nobody is contending that innovation doesn't happen and new companies with headcount don't form. What's being suggested is that when you add it all up at a macro level, the losses far exceed the gains.

Going back to basics, truck and delivery drivers, say they are automated (or their hours are cut by 80% if you want to suggest last-mile utilisation) how will these individuals earn a living? What jobs will they do? Hairdresser? Life coach? Genetic engineer? Call center - oops that's been largely automated too.
I thought macdonalds sold disposable plastic toys made in shen zhing is it? By robots, with added free snacks and called them happy meals.
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Old Oct 10th 2017, 11:02 am   #960
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I thought macdonalds sold disposable plastic toys made in shen zhing is it? By robots, with added free snacks and called them happy meals.
Shenzhen. Fishing port in the 50's now 12 million people. That's a lot of Happy Meals!
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