The world of automation
#211
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The world of automation
Err, almost exactly the reverse (its one of the problems with patents). They are the shock troops of commercial warfare - being used not only to defend against others, but attack as well - and extract tribute from secondary entities as well.
For instance, mickeysoft makes $2bn from licensing it's patents to just Android manufacturers - which is much more than they make from selling their own phones.
Put it this way, Google bought Motorola for the patents (which are the bit they kept when they sold it on). Mickeysoft bought Nokia for its patents (certainly wasn't for anything else). Worthless they certainly ain't.
And with the nice tax treatment they get, it's much better for a high tech company to fund R&D than take the profit and have to pay the taxman.
For instance, mickeysoft makes $2bn from licensing it's patents to just Android manufacturers - which is much more than they make from selling their own phones.
Put it this way, Google bought Motorola for the patents (which are the bit they kept when they sold it on). Mickeysoft bought Nokia for its patents (certainly wasn't for anything else). Worthless they certainly ain't.
And with the nice tax treatment they get, it's much better for a high tech company to fund R&D than take the profit and have to pay the taxman.
I've seen a lot of patents exploited to the point that they are hardly worth pursuing any more.
#212
Re: The world of automation
$2 billion is no small amount of money. It might be the salary budget for all non executive employees along with a workstation refresh.
#213
Re: The world of automation
So, it's about 10%+ of mickeysoft profits - and that's just from Android, then. Put the rest in and you'd have to double that, at least. I've seen numbers up to $8bn.
It's been said mickeysoft would be a better bet if they just sacked the developers, got out of OS, and just put the money into patents and IP licensing. After all, you don't actually have to MAKE anything with that model.
#214
Last resort... format c:/
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Singapore to Surfers Paradise to... Tenerife... to Gran Canaria!
Posts: 1,626
Re: The world of automation
Ironically they are technically the easiest company on the planet to put out of business. All we need is a major company like Apple or Microsoft or someone like Mozilla to go ad-free, spam-free, take an anti-data-retention stance, and crate a truly equal and non-spying search engine for all internet users. What would be the point in using Google then?
#215
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The world of automation
IIRC mickeysoft profits were somewhere around $16-20bn pa
So, it's about 10%+ of mickeysoft profits - and that's just from Android, then. Put the rest in and you'd have to double that, at least. I've seen numbers up to $8bn.
It's been said mickeysoft would be a better bet if they just sacked the developers, got out of OS, and just put the money into patents and IP licensing. After all, you don't actually have to MAKE anything with that model.
So, it's about 10%+ of mickeysoft profits - and that's just from Android, then. Put the rest in and you'd have to double that, at least. I've seen numbers up to $8bn.
It's been said mickeysoft would be a better bet if they just sacked the developers, got out of OS, and just put the money into patents and IP licensing. After all, you don't actually have to MAKE anything with that model.
The first part is just licensing technology to other vendors. Tech companies do that everywhere. Its just selling tech to other companies.
The second part is all part of accounting.
Don't get me wrong, R&D is needed by tech companies, to future proof and to come up with tech they are going to sell in 3+ years time, but in the current financial year, its an overhead, which is why its the first to get cut along with the marketeers when profits take a hit.
#216
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The world of automation
Which is why I stick consider them to be a one-trick pony, despite all the hype about cars, satellites, healthcare, etc.
Ironically they are technically the easiest company on the planet to put out of business. All we need is a major company like Apple or Microsoft or someone like Mozilla to go ad-free, spam-free, take an anti-data-retention stance, and crate a truly equal and non-spying search engine for all internet users. What would be the point in using Google then?
Ironically they are technically the easiest company on the planet to put out of business. All we need is a major company like Apple or Microsoft or someone like Mozilla to go ad-free, spam-free, take an anti-data-retention stance, and crate a truly equal and non-spying search engine for all internet users. What would be the point in using Google then?
If it was all about commercial and advertsing free, the ABC would have killed of Channel 9 by now.
#217
Re: The world of automation
The second part is all part of accounting.
Don't get me wrong, R&D is needed by tech companies, to future proof and to come up with tech they are going to sell in 3+ years time, but in the current financial year, its an overhead, which is why its the first to get cut along with the marketeers when profits take a hit.
Don't get me wrong, R&D is needed by tech companies, to future proof and to come up with tech they are going to sell in 3+ years time, but in the current financial year, its an overhead, which is why its the first to get cut along with the marketeers when profits take a hit.
Or you could have a small team beaver away in advance and patent the central tech to make them work.
Do that and you don't really have to compete much - you have so many avenues to making money and marketshare (if you want it).
That's the why of tech companies R&D investment, and why they go after moonshots. Get that central patent and you are guaranteed to make money. It's wrong that its allowed, but that's the rules of the game today. That central patent is like a toll bridge, hard to avoid and a licence to print money.
#218
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The world of automation
It's the output of the R&D, the demonstration that it makes money.
Look at it like this. If the next big thing were holographic display contact lens for AR (as it might be) you could attempt to win that market by designing, manufacturing, marketing, and selling some really hot lens in competition with other manufacturers.
Or you could have a small team beaver away in advance and patent the central tech to make them work.
Do that and you don't really have to compete much - you have so many avenues to making money and marketshare (if you want it).
That's the why of tech companies R&D investment, and why they go after moonshots. Get that central patent and you are guaranteed to make money. It's wrong that its allowed, but that's the rules of the game today. That central patent is like a toll bridge, hard to avoid and a licence to print money.
Look at it like this. If the next big thing were holographic display contact lens for AR (as it might be) you could attempt to win that market by designing, manufacturing, marketing, and selling some really hot lens in competition with other manufacturers.
Or you could have a small team beaver away in advance and patent the central tech to make them work.
Do that and you don't really have to compete much - you have so many avenues to making money and marketshare (if you want it).
That's the why of tech companies R&D investment, and why they go after moonshots. Get that central patent and you are guaranteed to make money. It's wrong that its allowed, but that's the rules of the game today. That central patent is like a toll bridge, hard to avoid and a licence to print money.
Been there done that and lost a patent challenge first hand.
Whilst R&D may have some serious pay off down the line, bean counters only think about this year. Unfortunate as it is, R&D really isn't as big as we would like it to be.
#219
Re: The world of automation
But that's the point, the patents are worth shit. Hololens and Google Glass as a case in point. Slight variation somewhere and the patent is worthless.
Been there done that and lost a patent challenge first hand.
Whilst R&D may have some serious pay off down the line, bean counters only think about this year. Unfortunate as it is, R&D really isn't as big as we would like it to be.
Been there done that and lost a patent challenge first hand.
Whilst R&D may have some serious pay off down the line, bean counters only think about this year. Unfortunate as it is, R&D really isn't as big as we would like it to be.
#220
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The world of automation
I wish patents were more useless than they are (eg more tightly defined and only for truly novel), However Android manufacturers are coughing up ~$15 per phone to mickeysoft as a troll tax because of them. They wouldn't be doing that if they were "worth shit". A strong patent is like the nuke of commercial competition, even the threat of its use is effective.
Patents are easy beats.
#221
Last resort... format c:/
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Singapore to Surfers Paradise to... Tenerife... to Gran Canaria!
Posts: 1,626
Re: The world of automation
But if a big entity like Mozilla were to launch its own search engine with no data-retention or ads then this would be an entirely different ball game. Keep in mind that internet users are more aware than bogans who reach for the remote...
#222
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The world of automation
That could be programming-related, and most bogans would probably state that advertising is the same everywhere.
But if a big entity like Mozilla were to launch its own search engine with no data-retention or ads then this would be an entirely different ball game. Keep in mind that internet users are more aware than bogans who reach for the remote...
But if a big entity like Mozilla were to launch its own search engine with no data-retention or ads then this would be an entirely different ball game. Keep in mind that internet users are more aware than bogans who reach for the remote...
#223
Re: The world of automation
It's already happening. DuckDuckGo is growing and has established itself as a choice of default search engines on mobile devices. When the importance of data/identity protection becomes more in demand by users, Google will lose ground and DuckDuckGo will keep growing. Unless Google decide to buy them....
#224
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The world of automation
It's already happening. DuckDuckGo is growing and has established itself as a choice of default search engines on mobile devices. When the importance of data/identity protection becomes more in demand by users, Google will lose ground and DuckDuckGo will keep growing. Unless Google decide to buy them....
.... and coding a quick search engine, comparable to Google, marketing it, making it default on all Android devices, happens overnight.
Ha. Yeah sure you have worked for a software company. Nice try.
#225
Re: The world of automation
Never said I worked for a software company before. But now I will. I have worked for software companies before. Not sure why that's relevant as I never held a position in marketing or research.