Gordon Barlow

Well, we'll never know, will we? It has just been reported that one prisoner has been released after 14 years - without ever being charged with a crime.

Amazulu

GB has been a mess that's for sure but they've also caught a shitload of real terrorists and associated assholes. Plenty of those that the US have released have since reengaged in terrorism and/or support for terrorism

War is an ugly business

Hope this helps

Amazulu

Despite the fact that some (and only some) of what wikileaks has exposed is legitimate public knowledge, I think that Assange is an opinionated prick with an over-inflated notion of his own relevance. He's also a coward IMO. A lot of what he has made public has been dangerous and endangered lives - lives of people who are trying to help the west, but in the eyes of Assange and his cohorts, the west is evil and deserves to be hurt

One thing that I will say for him though is that it looks like he and the Donald are big mates. Trumpie quotes Wikileaks readily and Assange has released plenty of stuff to try and embarrass and hurt Clinton. It looks like the Ecuadorean government has cut of his internet access due to this

Beoz

That's one. I wonder how many others have participated in terror related activities. Killing the innocent has got to have some degree of mental issues associated with it.

Dorothy

Holy shit; I actually agree with an Amazulu post!!!!

Swerv-o

I find it does happen from time to time...


S

Amazulu

My wisdom is great

I have much to teach

You will all agree with me in the end

Gordon Barlow

I don't take it as a given that all - or even any - of the prisoners in Guantanamo were terrorists. None have had a fair trial, as far as I can tell. There have been reports that one of the prisoners there ("the worst of the worst"") was Osama's barber, for goodness sake. Others were innocents shopped by their tribal enemies for money. We only have the word of the torturers and their superiors that any of the prisoners were terrorists. Why should we trust that word?

As for released prisoners turning to terrorism after their release. Can we really blame them for that? If I'd been tortured, I would most surely try to get my own back on my torturers - and their apologists. Wouldn't anybody?

Amazulu

Sure, but on the other hand, why should we trust the word of those who say that everyone is innocent - those who hate the west and have their own agenda?

Apologising, even finding some kind of justification, for those who turn to terrorism against the west is pathetic and ridiculous and destroys any kind of legitimacy

From what I have read, there are some who have been through GB who totally deserve to be there. Not the case with many others

Did the US overreact with the whole GB saga? Probably, but hindsight is a wonderful thing

The fog of war:

"War is the realm of uncertainty; three quarters of the factors on which action in war is based are wrapped in a fog of greater or lesser uncertainty. A sensitive and discriminating judgment is called for; a skilled intelligence to scent out the truth."

— Carl von Clausewitz 1832

Gordon Barlow

Well, Zulu, with you and me working on it, we have at least two skilled intelligences trying to scent out the truth!

Gordon Barlow

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/363332-wi...uador-clinton/

Here's a report from today's rt.com. It's still unknown whether the latest Wikileaks disclosures were the result of a "dead man's switch" (automatically triggered by the incapacity of Assange) or just a shot across the bows by him. I am inclined to believe that he is still alive, and perhaps merely playing possum. But, maybe not. The British politicians are as strongly determined as ever, to obey their US masters and get the man into Guantanamo one way or another.

Amazulu

Geopolitics/politics/skulduggery at play here:

Putin likes Trump and hates Clinton because Trump will weaken NATO and conduct a somewhat isolationist foreign policy - the polar opposite of Clinton

This will greatly aid Putin and his expansionist agenda

Trump is generally Russia-friendly

Putin is trying to discredit Clinton with document leaks

Wikileaks is happily disseminating these documents because that's what they do - they hate the west and damn the cost

Assange is therefore acting as a pawn for Putin - either directly or indirectly

At the same time:

Trump is using these leaks to try and hurt Clinton and aid his election campaign

Therefore:

Assange is a pawn/mate of Trump

Both sides are playing Assange

He has no moral high-ground and no credibility on this issue

Gordon Barlow

I'm not convinced Putin has an expansionist agenda, Zulu. Nothing to hold a candle to NATO's expansionist agenda, at least. Russia is several degrees weaker than NATO, militarily, so its government would have to be pretty stupid to initiate any war. The US, on the other hand, is run by oligarchic bullies no less than Russia is, and there is no doubt at all about its (the US's) expansionist agenda - "the indispensable nation", "manifest destiny", and all that... I don't mean that the US would ever invade Russia - its rulers aren't that reckless; but they are would welcome a proper proxy-war.

As for Assange's Wikileaks and its part in the drama... I approve of his disclosure of all the secrets and lies of the people who have authority over me and my family. Let somebody else disclose the secrets and lies of whoever else is playing the game. It is the NATO thugs who are putting my grandchildren's lives at risk, not their opponents.

Amazulu

Of course Putin is expansionist - he is seeking to emulate the old USSR. He hates the fact that they lost. He knows thought that he can't do it by direct military confrontation - the result would be defeat or a nuclear exchange. So he's doing it asymmetrically - he uses Ukrainian separatists, Al Assad, Turkey, Iran etc

All powerful countries/empires seek to expand - Rome, Persia, Japan, Germany, GB, USSR, USA, China. Nature of the beast

Assange is Putin's pawn - and this suits Trump. I like a lot of what Trump is saying about domestic and economic issues - good right-wing, conservative policies - but his foreign policy would be a disaster

NATO is a rock for the west - there is no doubt that without the alliance over the last 50 years, we'd all be speaking Russian or living in a cave. That's not to say that they are perfect, far from it but perfection rarely happens in anything

Islam, multiculturalism, socialism, PC'ness, appeasement, Iran, Turkey are putting your grandchildren's lives at more risk than the US and the west

Gordon Barlow

Ah well, we will have to disagree on a few things about Assange. And Trump. I class myself as a libertarian with liberal leanings, so I disagree with many of his domestic positions. But I do approve of his isolationism. For me, his foreign policy is the most attractive thing about him. He will not revel in the slaughter of foreigners in their homes in faraway countries. Very unlike Big Brother Hillary, in that regard. As I've said elsewhere, I believe Hillary will be the next US President, thanks to her corporate sponsors' long experience of cheating the voters, so it's her foreign policy that will prevail. I can only hope that your benign trust in it will be proven realistic.