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Old Dec 10th 2017, 11:11 pm   #16
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
No need of course if you want an ever fearful work place with no avenue to turn to in times of exploitation and abuse.
More bullshit propaganda from the resentful.

In case you glossed over it, the biggest corporate taxpayers last year where those nasty banks.

Commonwealth Bank at $3.3 billion, Westpac at $3 billion, NAB at $2.4 billion and ANZ at $2 billion.

Just like you do, corporates will minimise the tax they pay in accordance with the rules. Hardly fair for you to blame them for .......... ????? um what are you blaming them for again? ......... when the rules are there for all of us to play with.
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Old Dec 10th 2017, 11:45 pm   #17
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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More bullshit propaganda from the resentful.

In case you glossed over it, the biggest corporate taxpayers last year where those nasty banks.

Commonwealth Bank at $3.3 billion, Westpac at $3 billion, NAB at $2.4 billion and ANZ at $2 billion.

Just like you do, corporates will minimise the tax they pay in accordance with the rules. Hardly fair for you to blame them for .......... ????? um what are you blaming them for again? ......... when the rules are there for all of us to play with.

Even greater bullshit. Banks should pay a greater share, knowing their keenness to socialise losses due to irresponsible business dealings. Or have you suddenly become a socialist as well?


Minimise losses? How about non payment at all? Chevron for example paid zero corporate tax in Australia on 2.1 billion dollar .....Hundreds of them are feeding of the public teat. But that's fine by you.
Now the corporate sector that do pay some impost want lower corporate tax. Their status and lobbying allows them to get away with what they do of course and threats......


Glad you approve of such trysts because the tide is rapidly turning.
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Old Dec 11th 2017, 1:35 am   #18
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Even greater bullshit. Banks should pay a greater share, knowing their keenness to socialise losses due to irresponsible business dealings. Or have you suddenly become a socialist as well?


Minimise losses? How about non payment at all? Chevron for example paid zero corporate tax in Australia on 2.1 billion dollar .....Hundreds of them are feeding of the public teat. But that's fine by you.
Now the corporate sector that do pay some impost want lower corporate tax. Their status and lobbying allows them to get away with what they do of course and threats......


Glad you approve of such trysts because the tide is rapidly turning.
Oh you want to play that game?

Its pretty easy to tell if you are telling the full story or not. Half stories are usually manufactured to suit ones own one sided agenda.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/exxonmobil-chevron-shell-paid-no-tax-in-australia-for-2016-20171207-h011z3.html
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Old Dec 11th 2017, 7:05 am   #19
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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Oh you want to play that game?

Its pretty easy to tell if you are telling the full story or not. Half stories are usually manufactured to suit ones own one sided agenda.

ExxonMobil, Chevron, Shell paid no tax in Australia for 2016
Unfortunately it is not a game. Corporate tax avoidance and their lobbyists pushing for even lesser tax, from those that do pay a share is impacting severely on a governments ability to pay other commitments. Hence ever less for more pushing problems than corporate welfare.


I'm afraid last century corporate tax cut thinking, is that a relic of the past. Not forgetting the big end of town and the tory/conservatives, the populist are becoming ever angry at cuts and price rises and stagnant salaries/wages for starters but hardly ends there.

Last edited by the troubadour; Dec 11th 2017 at 7:09 am.
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Old Dec 11th 2017, 7:35 am   #20
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Unfortunately it is not a game. Corporate tax avoidance and their lobbyists pushing for even lesser tax, from those that do pay a share is impacting severely on a governments ability to pay other commitments. Hence ever less for more pushing problems than corporate welfare.

I'm afraid last century corporate tax cut thinking, is that a relic of the past. Not forgetting the big end of town and the tory/conservatives, the populist are becoming ever angry at cuts and price rises and stagnant salaries/wages for starters but hardly ends there.
I think you have yourself all wound up by popular phrases or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought. "Big end of Town", "Corporate Tax Avoidance".

Perhaps you need to look a little deeper. Even your mates in the Union lead Labor party aren't going to be able to argue against it.

Fact check: Will Australia be uncompetitive on company tax if the Government's reforms fail? - Fact Check - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old Dec 11th 2017, 10:52 am   #21
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
I think you have yourself all wound up by popular phrases or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought. "Big end of Town", "Corporate Tax Avoidance".

Perhaps you need to look a little deeper. Even your mates in the Union lead Labor party aren't going to be able to argue against it.

Fact check: Will Australia be uncompetitive on company tax if the Government's reforms fail? - Fact Check - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
So to get this right, your answer to companies paying no tax in australia is to cut the corporate tax rate ...... that they don't pay because they pay no tax?

Facts are no company wants to pay tax, and there are lots of loopholes that allow them to avoid it. Loopholes that Mr Average can't use. So upshot is more of the %age tax burden falls on the individual, rather than the conglomerate.

The more loopholes are closed, the lower the tax can be on everyone.

Does seem noticeable; if it's a union trying to protect the individual from being ****ed over by a multinational, you attack the union .... not the multinational. Strange that.
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Old Dec 11th 2017, 7:39 pm   #22
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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So to get this right, your answer to companies paying no tax in australia is to cut the corporate tax rate ...... that they don't pay because they pay no tax?
Your words. I never actually said such a thing but nice try ..... again.

You left wingers are just incredible species. Do any of you actually read beyond the first paragraph.

Its like you read the first line of drama then you are off on one ..... again.

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Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Facts are no company wants to pay tax, and there are lots of loopholes that allow them to avoid it. Loopholes that Mr Average can't use. So upshot is more of the %age tax burden falls on the individual, rather than the conglomerate.

The more loopholes are closed, the lower the tax can be on everyone.
Resentment again. That shit really has to stop.

No one, company or individual wants to pay tax. So what?

In the case of Chevron the outgoings, or investments in the Gorgon project, the spend severly outweighed its profits. Simple taxation mate. You are entitled to the same benefits.

So again you lie to suit your own agenda.

FWIW Gorgon has been one of the most expensive engineering projects ever. I think the Space Station comes in number 1.

Up there too in terms of engineering spend is the Crossrail project, which has been a major employer of people in London for many years. It kept me and 1000's of other employed during the financial crisis and will continue to do so once its finished. The long term taxation paid by this project will well and truly cover the cost.

Same for Gorgon. A major employer of people and private companies. Just think about the supply chain. Those who have provided design, machinery, etc for Gorgon. Many Australian based. All paying Australian tax. It doesn't stop there. Once in operation these people and companies still provide for the operations and maintenance. All get paid. All get taxed.

Then Chevron starts turning a profit. More tax for many many years to come.

If governments choose to allow some costs, some investment, to offset profit taxes, then that's the policy you should be attacking. Not the corporation who is playing within the rules. You are entitled to the same benefits.

I am sure you understand the implications for the economy if we didn't encourage investment from private multi-nationals. Or do I need to spell it out?

You really don't think too deeply about this and rely on the drama filled first paragraph.


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Does seem noticeable; if it's a union trying to protect the individual from being ****ed over by a multinational, you attack the union .... not the multinational. Strange that.
So turning full circle back to unions where can they fit in all this?

Well considering their traditional strategy is a dying art they need a new approach.

Everyone has an incentive - making money. The corporation, the workers, the government, even the union themselves.

Unions really need to take a good look at how they can be a part of the making money process and considering their traditional relationship is with the workers then they should be working with both workers and corporations to implement bonus structures around productivity.

Rather than their traditional approach of making money for less productivity. No one buys that strategy anymore.

Hope this helps.
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Old Dec 11th 2017, 11:44 pm   #23
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
So to get this right, your answer to companies paying no tax in australia is to cut the corporate tax rate ...... that they don't pay because they pay no tax?

Facts are no company wants to pay tax, and there are lots of loopholes that allow them to avoid it. Loopholes that Mr Average can't use. So upshot is more of the %age tax burden falls on the individual, rather than the conglomerate.

The more loopholes are closed, the lower the tax can be on everyone.

Does seem noticeable; if it's a union trying to protect the individual from being ****ed over by a multinational, you attack the union .... not the multinational. Strange that.
Strange indeed. Like straight from the propaganda thoughts of the Chamber of Commerce thinking. Not to say out dated 80's Tory thinking with the 'Defend the big end of town' at all costs. Defend privilege attack the vulnerable. Welfare being only alright if it is to further corporate profits.
Banksters okay to benefit from socialism but not the ordinary Joe. Where in fact many should have been locked up for the treachery implemented through lies and deceit, greed and self interest.


So what if Richard Goyda , the CEO of Woolworths gets 100 million $ over ten years, but okay to cut rates of the working poor.....


Strange indeed.
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Old Dec 12th 2017, 1:14 am   #24
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Strange indeed. Like straight from the propaganda thoughts of the Chamber of Commerce thinking. Not to say out dated 80's Tory thinking with the 'Defend the big end of town' at all costs. Defend privilege attack the vulnerable. Welfare being only alright if it is to further corporate profits.
Banksters okay to benefit from socialism but not the ordinary Joe. Where in fact many should have been locked up for the treachery implemented through lies and deceit, greed and self interest.


So what if Richard Goyda , the CEO of Woolworths gets 100 million $ over ten years, but okay to cut rates of the working poor.....


Strange indeed.
Of course you will be providing the factual evidence of that.

Anything else is just another cliché lacking fact, depth and imagination.
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Old Dec 12th 2017, 1:46 am   #25
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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Of course you will be providing the factual evidence of that.
I think you'll find he's referring to the penalty rates cut - remember that?
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Old Dec 12th 2017, 2:12 am   #26
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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I think you'll find he's referring to the penalty rates cut - remember that?
How are the penalty rates in your homeland (a superior country according to you)?

What's the minimum wage there?

How many are on zero hour contracts?

Maybe you can enlighten so as to provide some perspective
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Old Dec 12th 2017, 3:25 am   #27
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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Of course you will be providing the factual evidence of that.

Anything else is just another cliché lacking fact, depth and imagination.
The factual evidence being with the corporate tax base shrinking, along with collection from direct taxes, Australian workers will continue to get shafted by increasing tax burden to maintain services, or in place of getting shafted out right will experience ever declining welfare services and ever greater costs.


The clichés came hard and fast on your side. The side of the business lobbyists whose primary concern appears to be enriching foreign share holders to the cost of a fair and decent nation. Shame on such thinking.
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Old Dec 12th 2017, 3:32 am   #28
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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How are the penalty rates in your homeland (a superior country according to you)?

What's the minimum wage there?

How many are on zero hour contracts?

Maybe you can enlighten so as to provide some perspective
You best stay with matters you may know something about.(whatever that may be) You know woolly thinking assisted in the demise of the country you hailed from. Probably best not to allow Australia follow a path similar in ever greater disparity between wealth and class and have and have nots, then applaud the decline of Modern Day Australia.


If you are talking about Europe, something you fare poorly in every time you raise the matter, you may wish to look into all the government payments and support systems in place compared to Australia.


You know its called looking at the bigger picture....
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Old Dec 12th 2017, 3:37 am   #29
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Your words. I never actually said such a thing but nice try ..... again.

You left wingers are just incredible species. Do any of you actually read beyond the first paragraph.

Its like you read the first line of drama then you are off on one ..... again.



Resentment again. That shit really has to stop.

No one, company or individual wants to pay tax. So what?

In the case of Chevron the outgoings, or investments in the Gorgon project, the spend severly outweighed its profits. Simple taxation mate. You are entitled to the same benefits.

So again you lie to suit your own agenda.

FWIW Gorgon has been one of the most expensive engineering projects ever. I think the Space Station comes in number 1.

Up there too in terms of engineering spend is the Crossrail project, which has been a major employer of people in London for many years. It kept me and 1000's of other employed during the financial crisis and will continue to do so once its finished. The long term taxation paid by this project will well and truly cover the cost.

Same for Gorgon. A major employer of people and private companies. Just think about the supply chain. Those who have provided design, machinery, etc for Gorgon. Many Australian based. All paying Australian tax. It doesn't stop there. Once in operation these people and companies still provide for the operations and maintenance. All get paid. All get taxed.

Then Chevron starts turning a profit. More tax for many many years to come.

If governments choose to allow some costs, some investment, to offset profit taxes, then that's the policy you should be attacking. Not the corporation who is playing within the rules. You are entitled to the same benefits.

I am sure you understand the implications for the economy if we didn't encourage investment from private multi-nationals. Or do I need to spell it out?

You really don't think too deeply about this and rely on the drama filled first paragraph.




So turning full circle back to unions where can they fit in all this?

Well considering their traditional strategy is a dying art they need a new approach.

Everyone has an incentive - making money. The corporation, the workers, the government, even the union themselves.

Unions really need to take a good look at how they can be a part of the making money process and considering their traditional relationship is with the workers then they should be working with both workers and corporations to implement bonus structures around productivity.

Rather than their traditional approach of making money for less productivity. No one buys that strategy anymore.

Hope this helps.
No company wants to pay tax. So what you say. Sort of says it all with your mindset and corporate lobbyist approach.


So no problem 7.1 billion dollars can be tax free as they give jobs to a number of workers?


No wonder democracy is under threat. No wonder there is unrest within the ranks.


Such bullshit doesn't cut the mustard any more.
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Old Dec 12th 2017, 3:44 am   #30
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Default Re: TRADE UNIONS..hmmm

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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
The factual evidence being with the corporate tax base shrinking, along with collection from direct taxes, Australian workers will continue to get shafted by increasing tax burden to maintain services, or in place of getting shafted out right will experience ever declining welfare services and ever greater costs.


The clichés came hard and fast on your side. The side of the business lobbyists whose primary concern appears to be enriching foreign share holders to the cost of a fair and decent nation. Shame on such thinking.
No evidence provded. That's how you roll right?
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