the troubadour

The failure is all on your part. Unions are not dead. I have already reminded you the fate hard core neo liberalism was dealt with in the last election.


For business to win the populist agenda they be best coughing up some of the tax avoided. The continued down grading of the welfare state, with cuts will not sit well nor should it with the population.


While Britain is paying the price of such politics, Australia has not quite gone so far down that road. Hopefully the resistance continue. The sort of Australia you are so eagerly awaiting, never sees the light of day.

GarryP

You have to be naive to think that libertarian mindset works in the real world. He seems to have it bad. My guess is he's never been in contact with upper management in large organisation - when you see the thinking that drives this type of behaviour from the other side you understand exactly why collective bargaining and unions are so key. It's the trumpian win-lose mindset with no time for the larger picture.

If anything I'd say australian management has it worse than the UK. So many macho managers, and so much bullshit without really understanding the bigger picture. I've met far to many that equate 'hard' with 'good'. Problem is they tend to be behind the curve, so are continually aiming at where the puck was.

Just look at online...

Beoz

Sounds very definitive but you forget one major point.

Neither Labour or Labor are in power in either country.

Bubble burst. Oh and while I am there here's another bubble worth bursting.

GarryP

This graph goes with yours

the troubadour

Simple reason I don't bother with graphs. I can find something to point my correct positioning every time.


I prefer to call it as it is and the rightards as they are . All very simple. Thank goodness for the unions.

Beoz

http://www.truevaluemetrics.org

Another website asking for a self entitled donation, just like the Guardian.

You really do find them.

Beoz

I can show you how to post a link or an image.

Don't be shy. Just ask.

GarryP

And you can't answer them, apparently ever.

When someone starts questioning a site for looking for donations, rather than the facts shown, they really should just say "I was wrong".

Unions and collective bargaining have a significant place in rectifying the power imbalance and helping to ensure the benefits of work are shared amongst those doing the work, rather than concentrated on those fiddling the figures in the C-suite.

The systemic attack on unions by the corrupt political, management, and media institutions has demonstrably prevented that - meaning that the benefits of productivity improvements haven't been shared, demonstrably.

As those pushing for mincomes and UBI have made clear, that cannot be allowed to continue into an era of mass automation and white collar redundancy.

So unions are part of the solution, whether that fits within your ideological blinkers or not.

the troubadour

I don't need to look on line, as I completely agree. Between my partner and self, we have experienced in different areas, the worst of management possible to imagine. A regular change in some instances of CEO. Only the replacement was as bad or worse as predecessor. This often amounted to the desire to bring in a 'new broom' meaning put their own people in position. The mobbing, bullying,(the latter more subtle in more recent times and nothing that can be traced ) boards stacked with people having own agendas and not necessary with the organisation/company in mind.
One board meeting they had to be separated from inflicting physical violence on one another.


So much could be said about it. Mostly negative. Very different to Europe where more maturity ruled. All a question of the wrong people given a position that they are not equipped to do. They appear to love to wield the big stick but increasingly subtle thanks to the law and unions.

the troubadour

Your a good lad. Don't want to take more of your time. You've explained to me about Singapore, Malaysia, why banksters are not crooks that should not be locked away Icelandic style, why unions are a blight on humanity, especially the proletarian, whom they are out to destroy.


I simply couldn't ask more of your valuable time. I'm sure your squatting up on the corrections I've underlined in each and every post to date.

Beoz

That webpage is unreadable. Its amateur hour. I hope you donated. They need it.

What you need to understand is that unions have effectively shot themselves and you in the foot.

In Australia where unions have been in part responsible for high minimum wages and the high cost of reshaping a businesses, it eventually leads to business closures or pay stagnation or them moving on without you and the union.

Just look at your Victorian car manufactures. Unions have forced them to be noncompetitive and instead did their own members out of employment.

Then on the flipside is your graph. Where business have been constrained by unions, they have moved on, and left their employees (the unions) behind.

What you and the other lefties want is a bigger piece of the pie. OK. But the question remains, what are you going to do to get a larger piece?

UBI? WTF? You already have UBI, its called welfare.

This is where the unions need to grow up, man up, and be the friend of the business, not the enemy.

There's a piece of the pie to be had, no one is going to give you a hand out, you need to work for it.

Beoz

So in translation you have nothing more to add. OK old timer. Adios.

Beoz

Awww .... standard company politics. ...... big deal.

GarryP

UK isn't better. The board of an organisation I knew sacked one of it's members. Only they did it by letter, hand delivered to their house during the day. A day when said individual was in a board meeting with all of them. So they sat through the entire meeting, knowing that the individual was gone, and not saying a thing, knowing what was on their doormat when they got home.

Talk about cold and unfeeling. I can well believe they have more psychopaths than most groups.

GarryP

Ignoring the other junk, this one particular inaccuracy has to be pointed out. The reason the car manufacturers in Australia weren't competitive was because the car manufacturers wouldn't/didn't invest in better machinery and automation. Basically they ran them into the ground, happily taking government handouts, and running them as cash cows till the government pulled the plug and they closed them down.

They could have produced the models that were wanted, innovated new models, automated manufacture - it would have been quite possible to do it right.

It was a failure of management and a failure of governance - in the companies, and in government.

What it wasn't was unions.

https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/...n-saved--65418