the troubadour

You might want to reflect a different tone if addressing me personally especially on matters you are in complete ignorance about, you crass, naïve Bogan individual. Read up on the history of that country, one you know nothing about, before once again flaunting a neo con ideological view point.


A complete waste of effort filling in your continued ignorance displayed on most post to which through to lack of ability to defend your corner, you resort to personal abuse.


I'd say you have the 'self worth' crisis which could be worth attempting to resolve in yourself......just for self esteem purposes.


Where you never schooled in the art of debate? Obviously not. AS they say better to let people think you are a fool, rather than opening of mouth and confirming it.


Here's to a 'quick' resolution to personal self worth issues.

Beoz

Your card is already marked and tainted. No turning back now.

Anyhow. Looks like we will need farmers. If SA is prepared to waste them, we can take them.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/australia-s-workplaces-are-transforming-search-where-the-jobs-will-be-in-2024-20180418-p4zaal.html

Thairetired2016

You turned a debate into an anti-white rant. I do wonder what your agenda is?
Or may be you are just a bored bitter old git?

the troubadour

Or you are a confused ageless git whom does not comprehend the argument being put forward through lack of ability?


Where exactly is the anti white bias? Read up and please explain, you poor deluded fellow.


A tiny, weeny bit of thought prior to future postings would be preferable. Now there's a good chap.

the troubadour

No reason to turn back when right, regardless of a few jokers on here find difficulty in comprehending. Doubt if any have any idea to what they refer, you in particular, but not solely.


Just wonder how the logistics of mass evacuation would work in reality? Average age of SA farmers any idea? Yet another knee jerk response to an issue not remotely thought out.

carcajou

You are talking twaddle.

This point seems to be sailing right by the city people driving this thread, but you can't just say "they are farmers in SA, therefore we can drop them into the bush and they will slot right in as farmers here."

You are right, farming land is very valuable! To give you an idea, a place a few kilometers from me, a longstanding farm but not really big, just sold for about $5 million. That doesn't include machinery etc which would easily double the sale price.

The Afrikaner farmers in SA who have that kind of money to play with, already have ample security (or have secured resident visas through investment elsewhere) and probably haven't done any actual farming in decades. It all gets done by hired staff, just like here in Australia.

So you are looking at the small-scale farmers in South Africa who do in fact farm themselves. If they liquidated their holdings there they might, at top end get a few hundred thousand Dollars (AUD). In the Australian farming regions, that money will get them a backyard veggie patch.

Not counting all the debt (in the millions) that farmers take on to do their plantings etc.

Australia has some of the best farmers and best farming technology in the world - any "useless" land sitting idle is truly useless and imported South African farmers aren't going to be able to give it a go (nor would they have the enormous resources needed to give it a go). If there even is such a thing as useless land since a lot of it is taken up by pastoralists on enormous stations, and they do use all of it.

By the way, guess what type of land the Government was willing to give the Aboriginals for their reserves? Not the useful kind . . . and not the kind with stuff in the ground . . .

Unless you are talking about appropriating land from the pastoralists, which is exactly the sort of policy the Afrikaners in question are fleeing from?

The type of "farmers" that Australia needs are not land owners, it is low-wage staff hands who currently do the job on backpacker visas. The actual farm owners are looking at one good year out of every five, which is why big corporations that have the cash to sustain that, are taking it over and small-scale ones are getting out. That is in fact what has been driving population decline in the regions the past 40 years; farms are amalgamating and getting bigger, and improved (and expensive!) technology is making farmhands redundant. So the same block of land 40 years ago that held five farming families and their children, is today now one farm owned by a corporation that manages it through technology with a tiny fraction of the workforce that was once needed.

So if some sort of "protection visa" category is going to be set up for the Afrikaners, it has to be accepted that they are going to move to Perth and Sydney and probably do anything but farm or work in agriculture. That's why this is being driven, aside from Dutton, by politicians who represent suburban Perth and Mandurah (Christian Porter, Ian Goodenough, Andrew Hastie), and not Rick Wilson (southern farmlands/Outback - who has hedged his bets on this issue in the media, saying he supports it in cases of "real and genuine persecution") or Melissa Price (northern farmlands/Outback). Because guess what part of WA most of the Afrikaners who came, have settled in?

the troubadour

What a well thought out researched post. A breath of fresh air from the droll and accusations that have been taking place of informed debate to date.


I was reading in todays 'West Australian' about a WA farmer from York, advocating for SA farmers to be brought to this state. He stated he could employ a 'couple' of them to help out on the farm, as back packers have little farm knowledge and too often injure themselves.
One just has to shake one's head. Do they really think SA farmers go going to do the work Back packers do at present? It shows just how little they know of the group in question.
I suppose some small land holders barely self sustainable, may be enticed, but I suspect those are not the ones in mind.


The entire matter appears to my thinking an ill thought out knee jerk reaction, from a non too bright Australian politician, whom may well go on and be leader of the Lib's and perhaps PM.
Obviously right wing groups have jumped on it partly to curry own ideology of bringing race into the equation in the most acceptable (to some) way. I do feel the pressure will mount on brown migration, just as it has already on Muslim and African entrants.


They will do what ever it takes to gain advantage. That includes being anti white South African for questioning the need, wisdom and actual feasibility of such a ridiculous suggestion.


I would farmers here would be very likely to be able to sponsor RSA farmers as the situation stands, proving the need and the desire on that side to come.


Entry was made possible to a considerable number of white Zimbabwean farmers over the years so doubt if much would be different.


A mass evacuation though one of the most idiot proposals even for a member of this serving government.

morpeth

Perhaps you may wish to consider why other posters also receive the impression that for whatever reason you are against the Whites in South Africa.

I don't see that anyone posting on this thread wishes to destroy Afrikaner culture- expressing a different point of view that trends in SA indicate sadly better for the white farmers to get out sooner rather than later isn't even remotely a desire to destroy their culture. But I can't disagree more emigration will weaken the community that is left. A political leader singing "Kill the Boer" is hardly indicative of a country where one would typically consider where the rule of law will protect the White farmers in the long run. And the experience of Zimbabwe and other African countries hardly breeds confidence in the long-run future of white farmers and whites in general in South Africa.

You do make a very good point that emigration of the White farmers and Whites in general should have the tendency to weaken their position South Africa, but considering the history of Africa and Zimbabwe next door, it i snot unreasonable to consider better the farmers get out while they can.

the troubadour

The pitch folk brigade? No thanks nothing to take on board there. That lot would likely jump of the ground in fright if viewed their own shadow. They may well ask their motive to arrive at such an outrageous conclusion.
Especially as I'm pro whites in South Africa and certainly consider they have an important, even essential role to play in that country.


So the removal of white farmers will not be the prelude to the beginning of the end of Afrikaner culture? If not, it will go heavily towards its demise.
All sides have committed pretty gross injustices, none more than those formally in power that refused to se the writing on the all until it was too late. You obviously don't know or are not too familiar with aspects of Africa. The chant/song 'Kill the Boer' was used in 'other times' and while repeated sadly for impact, should not remove the fact that the rule of law is still what dictates the country. of course it provokes fear, fear is a by product of change and uncertainty.


No you are correct the point is not only good, it is paramount to the survival of the white tribe exerting further influence that not only the poor, whom nobody wants, the maimed and old are the only remaining remnants of Afrikaner presence.
Get out while they can? Really defeatist talk of the worst kind. Still plenty of scope for farmers in that country to ply their trade.
As noted there is a crime problem for sure in SA not a cull on farmers as such, just some are in vulnerable positions.


Is it only reasonably safe 'white' farmers you fear for ? Or does your compassion stretch to others around the world being far worse mistreated often closer to home?

Beoz

This rhetoric has been kicking around the media the past few days. This one from news.com.au.

Food for future thought

The seemingly bright forecast for the future of Aussie agriculture employment has been hailed by farmers.

Victorian Farmers Federation president David Jochinke told 3AW that farming has moved beyond the traditional image of “Old McDonald, chewing on straw in a tractor”.

“No longer is it just an occupation — it’s a serious business,” he said.

Could SA farmers be useful here?

carcajou

Which I think brings us back to Square One, and what exactly is a farmer?

There are people around who do things like contract farming for corporations, and are contractors for things like hay, soil etc, or who specialise in bulk transport. Plus agricultural equipment sales and maintenance, etc.

Do they count as farmers, or farm-related employment, or what?

But most of them own their own facilities or big rigs, and do so on very valuable land. Very hard for Afrikaner refugees to have the cash to get into that either. To give an example, the hay contractors I know, it would take a multi-million Dollar offer to buy them out, or to set up a business with proper facilities that could adequately compete with them.

So there are things like hired farm managers, or equipment salesmen, or accountants who specialise in agricultural accounts, etc. But as the farmer in York that troubadour quoted said, you just need a couple of those, there isn't room for a thousand (or more!). The Dome restaurant/hotel that is opening in Katanning next month is going to employ about 40 people, which will make it one of the biggest employers in that shire - and Katanning is bigger than York. So when people in the farming regions say "yeah I need quality staff," the numbers need to be seen in that context, not the context of, say, GM opening a plant in Geelong.

The whole industry is under pressure in terms of job numbers, in the Wheatbelt there are CBH bins that haven't opened in years, and many others under seeming constant threat of closure.

Many of the related fields I just described, would require hypothetical Afrikaner farmers to go back to school and re-train.

So I think most of them will end up in Perth or Sydney, doing unrelated employment, and even those who go to the regions, will probably do something else and won't be "farmers" as is being envisioned. There may be a few willing to accept under-employment in agriculture and try to work their way up but I don't think many will due to the challenges outlined.

the troubadour

I would further add many, if not most would likely be purely miserable doing work of a nature divorced of the land.


Such a large group their inter communal relations with long established 'locals' in smaller communities would prove 'interesting' dynamics as well.


While many do speak English, not all do, or less than fluent, especially the small land holders which would pose certain integration difficulties.


The loss of 'status' not to say lifestyle that many, though not all, live at present would likely provoke 'settlement issues' from depression to anger and a spectrum in between. Especially among what I believe at present is the greater majority that do not wish to locate but may feel obliged if such a Dunkirk style of evacuation was ever to take place.


That doesn't even begin to address increased issues for those that chose to remain nor the small business folk in the 'dorps' depended on farming income......

Gordon Barlow

Commentators here seem to have overlooked the fact that Australian bush areas and communities have accommodated foreign immigrants before, in great numbers. I was brought up in the Queensland bush (Darling Downs), and saw at first hand the absorption of foreigners after WWII. I have friends and relatives who or whose forebears settled near civilisation (around Mackay, for instance) and further out (Longreach, for instance).

Without critiquing all the posts on this thread, I can only say that any debate on the accommodation of new immigrants will profit a whole lot more from the opinions of country folk than from the opinions of city folk. No disrespect to the latter, but most of them are out of their depth here.

the troubadour

I'm certainly aware of those as well as the retuned servicemen given land to farm. Varying degrees of success of what I recall. But a worthy point to raise none the less.


I am not sure 'country folk' are fully informed of all the facts. I have already mentioned the York Cocky , here in WA, (York) who considers the arrival of SA farmers would be better suited to perform the work on his farm, than the apparent back packers whom perform tasks below desired skill at present.
A big part of the argument is that these SA farmers will not be expecting to work as farm labourers, and have great difficulty accepting it considering the role they now perform.
Will the government grant them land to farm? When so many farmers have been finding it tough in various parts I wonder how feasible that would prove or affordable?
With the numbers apparently being discussed it would probably be fair to suggest that many would be unable to farm and forced into other occupations.


All very subjective though as no need has been established as to date, nor do I expect anytime soon.
Nothing wrong with farmers sponsoring the few that may wish to come over as farm managers and the like.

carcajou

I completely agree. Most but not all are out of their depth. In the national political arena as well, regional voices are missing from the debate even about regional issues.

While you are correct about immigrants being absorbed into the regions post World War II, I would argue the context is chalk and cheese compared to today. In the 1940s and 1950s, farming communities were expanding and growing at very healthy clips, and opportunities to get viable land were a whole lot more accessible.

That also means the equation is fairly simple; growing community means growing demand means growing opportunities to provide a service or gain employment.

The farming communities however seem to have hit their peak in the early 1970s and have gone through decades of decline - in the WA Wheatbelt and inland Mid West, for instance, many have less population today than they did 50 years ago, which is astonishing considering the population of Australia as a whole has more than tripled since then. Lots of them have also had their populations already fall below what ABS considered to be "worse-case" scenarios, for ten years from now.

Shrinking communities = shrinking demand = pressure on opportunities to provide a service or gain employment.

One town near me, 25 years ago, had two full-service banks and a car dealer, all now long gone. They didn't shut because nobody was willing to own them and forced settlement of migrants would solve that issue; they shut because the community was under such pressure, under a changing economy, that these businesses just couldn't make a profit anymore. Where I am now used to have a full-time eye doctor who now just does two days a week, does two days a week in another town and one day a week in another town.

There are city folk who believe that just dumping migrants into the regions will solve this problem - presto, more people, now you can have a bank again! - but these are communities subsisting on an industry that has irreversibly changed and shed jobs due to technology and other factors. Attaching a regional condition to refugee visas and then expecting the migrants to perform employment alchemy seems incredibly unfair to both the migrants and their host communities, and is a recipe for disaster.

The other factor is that a town generally needs a population of about 50,000 to develop a self-sustaining economy, at which point it might not matter if a town was agriculture-dependent or not, it has a strong enough base to diversify. But there aren't a whole lot of regional towns in Australia that can meet that threshold - in WA, SA, and the NT, combined, outside of Adelaide, Darwin, and the Perth-Bunbury corridor, there are none - and I think that point is lost on the decision-makers in the state capitals and in Canberra.