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Old Apr 15th 2018, 2:43 pm   #16
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Really. When Malema, clearly a racist and nutter, has such a policy that has the support of the president and most in parliament, you know this could lead to genocide forming.

Better to be proactive than to watch this occur with all the warning signs clearly evident.
If I was still in S.A. I would also leave. It may not happen overnight but S.A. may well turn into another Zim.
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Old Apr 15th 2018, 11:18 pm   #17
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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Originally Posted by Thairetired2016 View Post
If I was still in S.A. I would also leave. It may not happen overnight but S.A. may well turn into another Zim.
Malema said: "The time for reconciliation is over. Now is the time for justice." And the parliament voted for this ...... ouch

That's heading in a very evil direction. It's all about payback for past wrongs.

So here's the situation. If you are a white SA farmer, you lose your house, you lose your livelihood. You are on the street with no roof over your head and no money. And you face death.

Given we are aware of the situation looming, it's a fair argument for Australia to be proactive like we have done with other politically persecuted people.
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Old Apr 15th 2018, 11:40 pm   #18
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Really. When Malema, clearly a racist and nutter, has such a policy that has the support of the president and most in parliament, you know this could lead to genocide forming.

Better to be proactive than to watch this occur with all the warning signs clearly evident.


No it is certainly not. That would be giving into radicals, whom less face it exist in every, or most countries. The Liberal Party of Australia, has more than enough of its own on another level. Many countries have had radicals with the platform of returning those not deemed to belong, due to colour or race.


Such a move by Australia, although thanked but no thanks by the South African Farmers Association would indeed weaken the position of remaining farmers IMO. even if taken up by only a few. It would likely provoke conflict within family, with those wishing to leave perhaps on behalf of the kids, one assumes mostly women, and those wanting to see it out, mostly men, whom feel a very close connection with the land and their position on it and as a proud race.


With a country willing to accept the Boer, radicals may well feel applying even more pressure would further their aim to rid the nation of its Boer, which in turn over time, would likely see greater hardship for the urban whites with questions about a continues presence at some stage in that country.


This may or may not come regardless, but we are not at that point at the moment, and the best thing ex Queensland cops come politicians, with high hopes for greater office whom posses a distinct right wing bend in his political approach, would be to keep it buttoned and focus his mind on people really in need being persecuted and killed because of race or from war zones, the role the humanitarian intake is supposed to be about.
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Old Apr 15th 2018, 11:55 pm   #19
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Malema said: "The time for reconciliation is over. Now is the time for justice." And the parliament voted for this ...... ouch

That's heading in a very evil direction. It's all about payback for past wrongs.

So here's the situation. If you are a white SA farmer, you lose your house, you lose your livelihood. You are on the street with no roof over your head and no money. And you face death.

Given we are aware of the situation looming, it's a fair argument for Australia to be proactive like we have done with other politically persecuted people.
'If' is not criteria to act recklessly upon. It is not wanted by The South African Farmers Association nor the South African government, whom, one may assume, would not have attacked the proposal by Australia so strongly, although they rightly were offended by the lack of diplomacy on the part of the Ugly Digger(Dutton) Sounds more like political manoeuvring on his part to further elevate his position to the extreme right of the Liberal party and their clones.


You need to understand African politics a little before quoting words as deeds by a fire brand. The position being since majority rule, the white tribe, has maintained their position in regards to wealth and considerable influence considering numbers in the nation as a whole.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 12:05 am   #20
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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If I was still in S.A. I would also leave. It may not happen overnight but S.A. may well turn into another Zim.


And Australia may turn into an Asian country at some point down the road.


No idea if you are really South African, and if so, an English or Afrikaner, but one reason the Afrikaner somewhat despised the 'English' was they felt they had a foot in both countries. If South African I'm sure you'll be aware of the saying, a little crude with regards to the matter in Afrikaans?


While the future is not ours to know, the comparison with Rhodesia/Zim is hardly comparable on scale. South Africa is a far different country. Obviously easy to make superficial comparisons.


Whether individual South Africans feel the desire to leave is up to them. Plenty leave countries for places they think will provide a better life. Many also to escape crime.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 3:15 am   #21
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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And Australia may turn into an Asian country at some point down the road.


No idea if you are really South African, and if so, an English or Afrikaner, but one reason the Afrikaner somewhat despised the 'English' was they felt they had a foot in both countries. If South African I'm sure you'll be aware of the saying, a little crude with regards to the matter in Afrikaans?


While the future is not ours to know, the comparison with Rhodesia/Zim is hardly comparable on scale. South Africa is a far different country. Obviously easy to make superficial comparisons.


Whether individual South Africans feel the desire to leave is up to them. Plenty leave countries for places they think will provide a better life. Many also to escape crime.
The persecution of white farmers has been widely reported, and recent political events in SA indicate it could get progressively worse. On that basis I don't see any reason why Australia would not bring in more South Africans subject to such persecution- and the actions of a past regime, just as actions of the past South Vietnam government-shouldn't/wasn't be a factor in regards to the Vietnamese refugees.

Yes, SA different from Zimbabwe and other African countries for that matter, yet there are some striking similarities to what happened to Zimbabwe and current trends in SA- expressions of retribution, desire to seize land, growing crime statistics.

Best to ignore ideology and do what Australia has done for many other groups, and in this case integration would be easier because of shared cultural similarities.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 3:26 am   #22
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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I would possibly support a special category visa with certain conditions. Something like the 489 where you have to live and work in a rural location for a certain amount of time. Except make it a condition of the visa that people using it are temporary only for a set number of years - maybe 10? - and they have to prove annually that they are living in rural areas and working in farming. If the reason they need protection is based on their farms being taken then surely farming is what they want to do?

However, if it's offered to South African farmers whose lives are in danger then it should also be offered to farmers from other countries. White, black, or green with purple polka dots. Not just white farmers from one country.
There are examples of Menonite in South America, let alone the Amish in America, where there original language has been retained, and provided a productive benefit to the host countries. I can't really see a negative for Australia of providing refuge to the white farmers of South Africa. And better to be proactive before the situation gets worse.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 3:36 am   #23
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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There are examples of Menonite in South America, let alone the Amish in America, where there original language has been retained, and provided a productive benefit to the host countries. I can't really see a negative for Australia of providing refuge to the white farmers of South Africa. And better to be proactive before the situation gets worse.
We don't live in South America or America.

Csn you see the benefit of providing refuge to Syrian farmers who are being persecuted? Howabout Afghani farmers?
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 3:58 am   #24
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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The persecution of white farmers has been widely reported, and recent political events in SA indicate it could get progressively worse. On that basis I don't see any reason why Australia would not bring in more South Africans subject to such persecution- and the actions of a past regime, just as actions of the past South Vietnam government-shouldn't/wasn't be a factor in regards to the Vietnamese refugees.

Yes, SA different from Zimbabwe and other African countries for that matter, yet there are some striking similarities to what happened to Zimbabwe and current trends in SA- expressions of retribution, desire to seize land, growing crime statistics.

Best to ignore ideology and do what Australia has done for many other groups, and in this case integration would be easier because of shared cultural similarities.
I agree it is being high lighted by certain individuals and political groups with alternative motives rather than the reality in mind.
One really should look further at who is promoting such angst and consider if a closer to home dimension is not being sought. The logistics and reality certainly have not been.
The object being of course to discredit multi cultalralism and developing world migration but attempting to show a break down in the country in question and as thus to promote such ideology as racism and assorted issues into main stream thought .


No there is not something similar to Zimbabwe at the moment. Could it happen? Well of course every thing is possible but some things les likely. Chinese ethnic folk could be forced out of Malaysia. Rohingya minority Muslim folk could be forced out of Burma. Oh wait that has already happened. Does your sense of compassion and justice not stretch towards people actually being brutalised at the moment? Or many other parts of the world for that matter where life is immediately in danger.


South Vietnam? Just where is the comparison there? Most that fled took it upon themselves and set out on very dangerous sea voyages on rickety boats, unwanted by most countries they washed up in. There was no grand plan to take out more than necessary as the American final withdrawal was little short of chaotic.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 4:12 am   #25
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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There are examples of Menonite in South America, let alone the Amish in America, where there original language has been retained, and provided a productive benefit to the host countries. I can't really see a negative for Australia of providing refuge to the white farmers of South Africa. And better to be proactive before the situation gets worse.


Well the negative is that most don't want appear to want to leave for Australia at this time anyway. Quite some negative, as have outlined the Afrikaner soul belongs to their own land, unlikely too many would wish to give up everything to play out roles as farm managers or workers. Now an incentive such as a dying wheat belt farming area with help to establish but with a degree of autonomy providing the freedom more used to, may attract a number.


A plan to make a Jewish homeland was briefly considered by Australia, given that group land to establish. That would likely work if a similar plan was drawn up for a Afrikaner land within. Unlikely for sure, but South African farmers are highly unlikely to move en mass to Australia to become 'slaves' or farm worker 'coolies' I'm afraid.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 4:18 am   #26
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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We don't live in South America or America.

Csn you see the benefit of providing refuge to Syrian farmers who are being persecuted? Howabout Afghani farmers?


Afghani and Karen (Burmese) certainly edging out a life for themselves across numerous Australian country communities. Some African as well.
Great to see and should have more people wiling to settle in the rural regions.


I would suggest though South African farmers would not be quite so willing to do such basic work. They are not generally of the temperament and perhaps en mass would not be quite as obliging as Dilly Dutton may prefer to believe.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 11:03 am   #27
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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'If' is not criteria to act recklessly upon. It is not wanted by The South African Farmers Association nor the South African government, whom, one may assume, would not have attacked the proposal by Australia so strongly, although they rightly were offended by the lack of diplomacy on the part of the Ugly Digger(Dutton) Sounds more like political manoeuvring on his part to further elevate his position to the extreme right of the Liberal party and their clones.


You need to understand African politics a little before quoting words as deeds by a fire brand. The position being since majority rule, the white tribe, has maintained their position in regards to wealth and considerable influence considering numbers in the nation as a whole.
Sounds like many in parliment agree with the views of a racist nutbag.

South Africa‘s parliament passed a motion, 241 votes to 83, that could lead to the seizure of land from white farmers without paying them compensation.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 12:09 pm   #28
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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We don't live in South America or America.

Csn you see the benefit of providing refuge to Syrian farmers who are being persecuted? Howabout Afghani farmers?
I was just giving examples of communities that emigrated to to particular locations and were of a benefit to teh host nations.

I see this as having two parts (a) helping a persecuted people (b) and as a practical matter, would such emigrants integrate fairly easily, and be of a benefit especially under a program of location required in rural regions for a number of years. The seizure of farms without compensation ( which sadly will hurt the poor in SA eventually as has been seen elsewhere in Africa) combined with targeted violence against white farmers reason enough- I agree simply the increasing crime rates alone perhaps not a sufficient justification. Waiting too late may result in a Rhodesia-type situation.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 12:18 pm   #29
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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I agree it is being high lighted by certain individuals and political groups with alternative motives rather than the reality in mind.
One really should look further at who is promoting such angst and consider if a closer to home dimension is not being sought. The logistics and reality certainly have not been.
The object being of course to discredit multi cultalralism and developing world migration but attempting to show a break down in the country in question and as thus to promote such ideology as racism and assorted issues into main stream thought .


No there is not something similar to Zimbabwe at the moment. Could it happen? Well of course every thing is possible but some things les likely. Chinese ethnic folk could be forced out of Malaysia. Rohingya minority Muslim folk could be forced out of Burma. Oh wait that has already happened. Does your sense of compassion and justice not stretch towards people actually being brutalised at the moment? Or many other parts of the world for that matter where life is immediately in danger.


South Vietnam? Just where is the comparison there? Most that fled took it upon themselves and set out on very dangerous sea voyages on rickety boats, unwanted by most countries they washed up in. There was no grand plan to take out more than necessary as the American final withdrawal was little short of chaotic.
Your concern for the motivations of politicians advocating a special program for SA farmers is besides the issue- would such a program be a humanitarian move by itself, and would it be of a benefit to Australia.

Good point that around the world there are people being persecuted- Christians in the Middle East, Muslims in Burma, and all cannot be let in at once. And maybe farmers in SA prefer to go to places like ex-Soviet Georgia, or in some cases other African countries, offering them a continued farming lifestyle. Whatever one's views about multiculturalism, common sense is SA farmers would integrate well.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 2:32 pm   #30
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

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And Australia may turn into an Asian country at some point down the road.


No idea if you are really South African, and if so, an English or Afrikaner, but one reason the Afrikaner somewhat despised the 'English' was they felt they had a foot in both countries. If South African I'm sure you'll be aware of the saying, a little crude with regards to the matter in Afrikaans?


While the future is not ours to know, the comparison with Rhodesia/Zim is hardly comparable on scale. South Africa is a far different country. Obviously easy to make superficial comparisons.


Whether individual South Africans feel the desire to leave is up to them. Plenty leave countries for places they think will provide a better life. Many also to escape crime.
Many farmers have left some time ago.
The S.A. govt. and other African govts. have always supported Mugabe. This means they think alike. Doesn't this indicate that the same situation as in Zim. is possible in S.A.? Only country which took an anti-Mugabe position was Ian Khama from Botswana.
And I'm neither English nor Afrikaans and I still know S.A. and her politics rather well.
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