Ramadan
#76
Re: Ramadan
You do recognise that you can't say the Chinese aren't marginalised but the Muslims are so it must be religion? (my comment on there being no war and no troops of Western countries in China).
I'm puzzled as to why you always spout this 'left' business and one has to drop it to see it as it 'really is' (i.e. whatever you think).
As GP says, you have to understand and address why someone can go from being irreligious to the next minute radicalised.
#77
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Ramadan
You didn't dispute that 4% are Chinese rather than the country full of Chinese? (well you can't, they're Census stats). I'm merely saying you are grossly over-exaggerating the Chinese in Australia and you spout some stat about Muslims.
You do recognise that you can't say the Chinese aren't marginalised but the Muslims are so it must be religion? (my comment on there being no war and no troops of Western countries in China).
I'm puzzled as to why you always spout this 'left' business and one has to drop it to see it as it 'really is' (i.e. whatever you think).
As GP says, you have to understand and address why someone can go from being irreligious to the next minute radicalised.
You do recognise that you can't say the Chinese aren't marginalised but the Muslims are so it must be religion? (my comment on there being no war and no troops of Western countries in China).
I'm puzzled as to why you always spout this 'left' business and one has to drop it to see it as it 'really is' (i.e. whatever you think).
As GP says, you have to understand and address why someone can go from being irreligious to the next minute radicalised.
#78
Re: Ramadan
Chinese have had 50 years of the cultural revolution, on top of a millennia of structured hierarchy where the safest route has been to keep your head down and not stand out (otherwise you lose that head). Lie and cheat that system for personal gain, sure, but the group comes before the individual.
MENA in contrast place a lot of stock in personal status and fighting to be the top dog - you are what you, personally, fight for.
Problem comes when you throw that into the current culture of western countries, and have 2nd generation immigrants steeped in a romanticised view of what 1st generation migrants got away from. Working class has got screwed, and the middle class are well down the same path and like everyone, the young, dumb, and full of cum males have little to look forward to. Because there is little real assimilation for many, they tend to socialise in their original country groups, meaning memes can spread without norming forces, and coupled with the above cultural outlook, 'fighting' can be seen as a good way of positioning in that social hierarchy.
Incidently, those same forces on the Brits seems to result in the 'immigrants bad' idea that has resulted in this referendumb. If they actually looked at why the job situation is poor, they would be going after an entirely different grouping.
#79
Re: Ramadan
Have a look at history
Simple equation - if we kill more of them, we win
History also shows us that when a modern western state gets its shit together it's a scary beast
#80
Re: Ramadan
Actually it looks like the combination of culture and stressing forces, coupled with social memes.
Chinese have had 50 years of the cultural revolution, on top of a millennia of structured hierarchy where the safest route has been to keep your head down and not stand out (otherwise you lose that head). Lie and cheat that system for personal gain, sure, but the group comes before the individual.
MENA in contrast place a lot of stock in personal status and fighting to be the top dog - you are what you, personally, fight for.
Problem comes when you throw that into the current culture of western countries, and have 2nd generation immigrants steeped in a romanticised view of what 1st generation migrants got away from. Working class has got screwed, and the middle class are well down the same path and like everyone, the young, dumb, and full of cum males have little to look forward to. Because there is little real assimilation for many, they tend to socialise in their original country groups, meaning memes can spread without norming forces, and coupled with the above cultural outlook, 'fighting' can be seen as a good way of positioning in that social hierarchy.
Incidently, those same forces on the Brits seems to result in the 'immigrants bad' idea that has resulted in this referendumb. If they actually looked at why the job situation is poor, they would be going after an entirely different grouping.
Chinese have had 50 years of the cultural revolution, on top of a millennia of structured hierarchy where the safest route has been to keep your head down and not stand out (otherwise you lose that head). Lie and cheat that system for personal gain, sure, but the group comes before the individual.
MENA in contrast place a lot of stock in personal status and fighting to be the top dog - you are what you, personally, fight for.
Problem comes when you throw that into the current culture of western countries, and have 2nd generation immigrants steeped in a romanticised view of what 1st generation migrants got away from. Working class has got screwed, and the middle class are well down the same path and like everyone, the young, dumb, and full of cum males have little to look forward to. Because there is little real assimilation for many, they tend to socialise in their original country groups, meaning memes can spread without norming forces, and coupled with the above cultural outlook, 'fighting' can be seen as a good way of positioning in that social hierarchy.
Incidently, those same forces on the Brits seems to result in the 'immigrants bad' idea that has resulted in this referendumb. If they actually looked at why the job situation is poor, they would be going after an entirely different grouping.
Yep, modern liberal mumbo jumbo as usual
#81
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Ramadan
Actually it looks like the combination of culture and stressing forces, coupled with social memes.
Chinese have had 50 years of the cultural revolution, on top of a millennia of structured hierarchy where the safest route has been to keep your head down and not stand out (otherwise you lose that head). Lie and cheat that system for personal gain, sure, but the group comes before the individual.
MENA in contrast place a lot of stock in personal status and fighting to be the top dog - you are what you, personally, fight for.
Problem comes when you throw that into the current culture of western countries, and have 2nd generation immigrants steeped in a romanticised view of what 1st generation migrants got away from. Working class has got screwed, and the middle class are well down the same path and like everyone, the young, dumb, and full of cum males have little to look forward to. Because there is little real assimilation for many, they tend to socialise in their original country groups, meaning memes can spread without norming forces, and coupled with the above cultural outlook, 'fighting' can be seen as a good way of positioning in that social hierarchy.
Incidently, those same forces on the Brits seems to result in the 'immigrants bad' idea that has resulted in this referendumb. If they actually looked at why the job situation is poor, they would be going after an entirely different grouping.
Chinese have had 50 years of the cultural revolution, on top of a millennia of structured hierarchy where the safest route has been to keep your head down and not stand out (otherwise you lose that head). Lie and cheat that system for personal gain, sure, but the group comes before the individual.
MENA in contrast place a lot of stock in personal status and fighting to be the top dog - you are what you, personally, fight for.
Problem comes when you throw that into the current culture of western countries, and have 2nd generation immigrants steeped in a romanticised view of what 1st generation migrants got away from. Working class has got screwed, and the middle class are well down the same path and like everyone, the young, dumb, and full of cum males have little to look forward to. Because there is little real assimilation for many, they tend to socialise in their original country groups, meaning memes can spread without norming forces, and coupled with the above cultural outlook, 'fighting' can be seen as a good way of positioning in that social hierarchy.
Incidently, those same forces on the Brits seems to result in the 'immigrants bad' idea that has resulted in this referendumb. If they actually looked at why the job situation is poor, they would be going after an entirely different grouping.
.... and of course that's the fault of the west.
#82
Re: Ramadan
With the chinese anyone who had the gumption to revolt got their head chopped off, the cultural bias in the face of adversity is not to blow some random up because the people that did are no longer here.
And the fault is with far right capitalism that says "stuff you, I can make more by outsourcing your job to SE asia, so you must be lazy". What we have is the endgame of a ideology that doesn't work in the long term, it's no longer fit for purpose. As I pointed out, at the moment the Brits are blaming immigrants. Eventually, as automation really hits home, they will final twig where the fault lies and then all hell breaks lose BECAUSE NOBODY SEEMS TO NOTICE THAT FINDING A SOLUTION IS NON-NEGOTIABLE, so they haven't.
Same applies here (the LNPs' 'stop the boats'), the same lack of vision of how to get to a sustainable position, fuelled by the same vested interests against it. It's just here is 5 years behind the curve on the hopelessness front.
#83
Re: Ramadan
Everything's sweeeet
#84
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,765
Re: Ramadan
Just when has a western state achieved anything that could remotely be called a victory let alone winning?
Middle East? Hardly. Vietnam? A clear loss. Korea? A stalemate at best. Ireland? Only a peace treaty with a lot of give and take ceased operations.
Nowhere in fact has bent to western power. Algeria. Indonesia. India. Vietnam.All gained independence defeating over whelming fire power and some would say odds.
Power alone will not over ride determination.
#85
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,765
Re: Ramadan
Robots will indeed change the world considerably.
#86
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,765
Re: Ramadan
Sigh, nope.
With the chinese anyone who had the gumption to revolt got their head chopped off, the cultural bias in the face of adversity is not to blow some random up because the people that did are no longer here.
And the fault is with far right capitalism that says "stuff you, I can make more by outsourcing your job to SE asia, so you must be lazy". What we have is the endgame of a ideology that doesn't work in the long term, it's no longer fit for purpose. As I pointed out, at the moment the Brits are blaming immigrants. Eventually, as automation really hits home, they will final twig where the fault lies and then all hell breaks lose BECAUSE NOBODY SEEMS TO NOTICE THAT FINDING A SOLUTION IS NON-NEGOTIABLE, so they haven't.
Same applies here (the LNPs' 'stop the boats'), the same lack of vision of how to get to a sustainable position, fuelled by the same vested interests against it. It's just here is 5 years behind the curve on the hopelessness front.
With the chinese anyone who had the gumption to revolt got their head chopped off, the cultural bias in the face of adversity is not to blow some random up because the people that did are no longer here.
And the fault is with far right capitalism that says "stuff you, I can make more by outsourcing your job to SE asia, so you must be lazy". What we have is the endgame of a ideology that doesn't work in the long term, it's no longer fit for purpose. As I pointed out, at the moment the Brits are blaming immigrants. Eventually, as automation really hits home, they will final twig where the fault lies and then all hell breaks lose BECAUSE NOBODY SEEMS TO NOTICE THAT FINDING A SOLUTION IS NON-NEGOTIABLE, so they haven't.
Same applies here (the LNPs' 'stop the boats'), the same lack of vision of how to get to a sustainable position, fuelled by the same vested interests against it. It's just here is 5 years behind the curve on the hopelessness front.
The policies in place have indeed created a far nastier world that rewards a minority whom are either compliant without imagination but especially so those calling the shots in position of obscene wealth and/or influence.
They'd sell their nearest and dearest to gain further advantage. Last thing they want is a level playing field or rules changed that promote accountability and transparency.
#87
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,765
Re: Ramadan
It wasn't always like that. Not so many decades back the " yellow hordes" were looked upon with great disdain and out right racism.
Just how much have the Chinese got it together? Their country is a pollution nightmare. Their male population far exceeds females bringing great social disharmony. Houses cost too much. Life is too competitive. Their government is building up an aggressive foreign policy agenda.
Sure sounds like they got their act together. Only in the narrowest neoliberal thinking would suggest this.
#88
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Ramadan
Sigh, nope.
With the chinese anyone who had the gumption to revolt got their head chopped off, the cultural bias in the face of adversity is not to blow some random up because the people that did are no longer here.
And the fault is with far right capitalism that says "stuff you, I can make more by outsourcing your job to SE asia, so you must be lazy". What we have is the endgame of a ideology that doesn't work in the long term, it's no longer fit for purpose. As I pointed out, at the moment the Brits are blaming immigrants. Eventually, as automation really hits home, they will final twig where the fault lies and then all hell breaks lose BECAUSE NOBODY SEEMS TO NOTICE THAT FINDING A SOLUTION IS NON-NEGOTIABLE, so they haven't.
Same applies here (the LNPs' 'stop the boats'), the same lack of vision of how to get to a sustainable position, fuelled by the same vested interests against it. It's just here is 5 years behind the curve on the hopelessness front.
With the chinese anyone who had the gumption to revolt got their head chopped off, the cultural bias in the face of adversity is not to blow some random up because the people that did are no longer here.
And the fault is with far right capitalism that says "stuff you, I can make more by outsourcing your job to SE asia, so you must be lazy". What we have is the endgame of a ideology that doesn't work in the long term, it's no longer fit for purpose. As I pointed out, at the moment the Brits are blaming immigrants. Eventually, as automation really hits home, they will final twig where the fault lies and then all hell breaks lose BECAUSE NOBODY SEEMS TO NOTICE THAT FINDING A SOLUTION IS NON-NEGOTIABLE, so they haven't.
Same applies here (the LNPs' 'stop the boats'), the same lack of vision of how to get to a sustainable position, fuelled by the same vested interests against it. It's just here is 5 years behind the curve on the hopelessness front.
We are already automated. Don't you get that?
But that is for another thread.
Back on topic.
#89
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Ramadan
Chinese got the money and a clear agenda. The greed in the west knows few bounds, especially the so called new world.
It wasn't always like that. Not so many decades back the " yellow hordes" were looked upon with great disdain and out right racism.
Just how much have the Chinese got it together? Their country is a pollution nightmare. Their male population far exceeds females bringing great social disharmony. Houses cost too much. Life is too competitive. Their government is building up an aggressive foreign policy agenda.
Sure sounds like they got their act together. Only in the narrowest neoliberal thinking would suggest this.
It wasn't always like that. Not so many decades back the " yellow hordes" were looked upon with great disdain and out right racism.
Just how much have the Chinese got it together? Their country is a pollution nightmare. Their male population far exceeds females bringing great social disharmony. Houses cost too much. Life is too competitive. Their government is building up an aggressive foreign policy agenda.
Sure sounds like they got their act together. Only in the narrowest neoliberal thinking would suggest this.
#90
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,765
Re: Ramadan
Ask the Tibetans. Ask those Chinese whom fall foil of their authoritarian system.
Do Muslims? Besides the right wing fanatics of course. Having been to a host of Islamic countries I was usually met with nothing more than kindness and dinner invites and people wanting to speak.
Nuff said really. Not all Mericans support the raising of villages during the Nam war nor intervention by bombing Arab targets either.
Lesson for the day being....There are nice people on all sides sometimes influenced by idiotic ideological brain washing and control from those with evil intent.