Amazulu

Liberal white noise in the context of the problem of the creeping islamification of the west - particularly of Europe

Beoz

No I'm not really saying Islam itself is responsible. But the root motive behind some of the unnecessary mass killings, violet killings, etc is Islam. It is used as a reason by those who do it.

Not really much point in bringing other religions into it today. Today other religions aren't the reason behind this stuff ... today.

There's no point being PC on this either just because its a religion or its the cool lefty thing to do. If the world keeps burying the truth, a solution won't present itself.

moneypenny20

What's the truth then? The vast majority of people being murdered by IS are Muslim. Islam and its leaders are therefore not responsible.

Beoz

Ok now we are getting somewhere. Some acknowledgement a group under the banner of Islam are murdering many people.

Admission is the first step.

OzTennis

I was referring to the logic of blaming the religion/cause or blaming the leaders of the religion/cause for not keeping their adherents in line with the analogy of the sad shooting of Jo Cox by a nutter.

80% of those in the UK and a similar % in Europe DO NOT go to church, mosque, synagogue or whatever. By 2030 8% of the population of Europe is expected to be Muslim (6% today). If 8 out of 10 people do not go a place of worship and less than 1 in 12 Europeans is Muslim I think you've got the 'islamification of the west, particularly Europe' out of context fwiw. The UK, Europe (and Australia) are all becoming non-religious in fact as the non attenders at a place of a worship used to be well below 80%.

Beoz

Blaming really isn't productive moving forward. Its a bit like the flu. No point blaming the person who gave it to you, its about prevention for the next time.

How do we prevent Islamic based human damage?

As was discussed earlier, the leadership is so fragmented. Lots of splinters, many with no intention to harm the infidel. Some with plenty of intention.

The religion needs to evolve, develop some leadership. It might even need to be controlled.

OzTennis

No, you blame yourself for not getting a flu injection?

Let's be clear that the main problem (and over 99% of the deaths) is Shi'ite vs Sunni; Muslim vs Muslim.

(In Northern Ireland it was supposed christian of the orange variety vs christian of the green variety. I say supposed because the majority of the trouble was between nutters and thugs not church goers.)

'How do we prevent Islamic based human damage' as you put it? Here's a few:

1 Ban western companies from making ginormous profits from selling arms to both sides. The Syrian government starves opponents, how about starving all sides of weapons (including sales to Iraq and Saudi Arabia who then supply both sides).

2 Don't attempt control by invading Afghanistan, Iraq (........... Vietnam)

3 Long term - education to prevent male Islamic youth in particular from being radicalised by being less marginalised and tolerated more. Don't add to the marginalisation and push impressionable young people towards radicalisation with intolerance towards all of that faith.

As I read today, Isis and radicalised young people can be monitored because they use social media, they phone, they email etc. They communicate with each other, they brag etc. It's the lone wolf nutter like the guy who murdered Jo Cox, the nutters who kill 40,000 US citizens who you can't control. How do you know what is going on in someone's head?

A few discussion points to keep you going! I don't have easy answers to extremely complex problems btw. I know sound bites and snap judgements aren't the answer though (e.g. Trump, let's ban the Muslims coming into our country*)

* Incidentally Trump has subtly changed tack on that in the last week; he's now saying ban visas for Muslims known to the FBI and other federal agencies which is what he should have said in the first place rather than blanket bans.

Beoz

Point 3. You couldn't resist. So where should that education come from. Islamic leadership perhaps?

At least you see a problem. That's a good start.

OzTennis

Has anyone ever said there isn't a problem? What is in dispute is the nature of the problem and how to resolve it.

The problem is radicalised youth in western society e.g. the Orlando guy - born in the USA to an immigrant from Afghanistan. We have to try to prevent these people from becoming radicalised because they feel marginalised. How do you think these easily impressionable youth react when they hear the attitudes of the Trumps and Farage's of this world?

The onus is not just on Islamic leadership but on everyone in the UK, USA, Australia (Europe) where these people migrate to and have children.

Beoz

I live in a country full of Chinese immigrants. Do they feel marginalised? Do they commit such acts? All to easy for the left to blame society. This is a religious issue, not a racial one.

OzTennis

Too simple (as usual).

4% of Australia's population identify themselves as having Chinese heritage and apparently the country is 'full of Chinese immigrants'. Hmmm.

Is there war in China whereby impressionable Chinese youth feel they have to go back to and join in?

I'm not 'blaming society' - there's just not a simple knee jerk solution to an extremely complex problem.

Amazulu

How you resolve it is to restrict islamic immigration into the west and those that are already here must assimilate and integrate - with failure to do so leading to explusion

Oh, and we also need to keep on killing assholes in the middle-east

They'll run out of assholes before we run out of Hellfire missiles and 50 cal bullets

1 asshole - 1 bullet

1 Hellfire - 10 assholes

Violence solves everything

GarryP

Hear Here !!

You can consider that someone can go from irreligious to suicide bomber in 8 weeks through the power of a religion; or you can realise that it ain't the religion causing that, the answer is deeper.

Beoz

Post 65. Your post. 6% of the world are Muslim. No diff buddy. Your stats are null.

Why can't you just drop the left wing stance and call it as it is? You nearly did.

OzTennis

I see you inadvertently posted one of your MBA assignments here - carefully reasoned, well researched and a very sensible solution to a complex problem.