DeadVim

More money = Better class of drug addict.

Beoz

+25k per year should be seen as an asset. Throwing that type of money around year on year for 6-12 years shouldn't be done lightly

You should judge it on both, which you just said in a round about way. We had boys in my school who were sent there for disciplinary purposes. They were loose cannons in the state system, mummy and daddy had a bit of money, and private school sorted them out - that's the now.

On the other hand there were boys who weren't very bright when it came to things like Maths, English, etc. For the now, that was a waste of money, but what private school taught them was competition. The world is a competitive place. You compete against others for jobs, pay rises, housing, in sports, even in love.

I've seen many of my former classmates go on to become very successful in life who were Mr Averages in the classroom. They found a way, took to the "just in time" stepping stones from school, to tertiary education, to further education, to networking and developed a shrewd attitude to getting further in life without necessarily being the smartest kid in the class.

From my time at state schools to my time at private schools, the difference was the extra, the attitudes, the desires to win, the "lets go further" mentality that was drummed into you at private school which was not really present in the state system.

It's not an argument about which aspect of life instills values. They all do. Parents, school, university, jobs, sports, hobbies, etc.

But to write the private school system off as a waste of money (which you haven't but just saying) is short sighted of people.

I would definitely send my kids through private school but only for the secondary years. I think its also important for them to experience the state system at some point (primary years) but when you are shaping your next stepping stone (secondary years) you want to have the broadest possible range of avenues and opportunities available.

OzTennis

I haven't 'written off' the private school system and said it is a waste of money; it has its advantages for those who can afford it and horses for courses. What I do take exception to is government funding private schools to the exclusion of better resourcing the schools which educate the majority of the population. It would be far better for someone who can afford it to 'waste' their money on their child's education instead of other conspicuous consumption such as buying a car worth > $25K > what the average punter has purely to make some sort of statement to the world.

You haven't invented the wheel to notice that success at school and vice versa doesn't guarantee what is going to happen in later life. You are also I think describing yourself.

That'll do, no need to make any more points as one keeps going around and around in circles.

Beoz

You could take the funding away from private schools, they would the wither and die, and the government would then need to build more schools at greater cost. Better just to fund them and not be resentful about it.

Yep. Coming in the top 10% in humanity subjects got you crucified back in my day. Luckily I had 4 unit maths in the mix which scraped me over the line. . Should have done more sciences.

OzTennis

As often happens you only see 2 alternatives (e.g. right or left), current level of funding and no funding at all. Less funding from government from private schools redirected to the majority and higher fees is what I'd argue for. Thinking about it since last post I'd think SOME parents choose to send their children to private school for conspicuous consumption and status reasons rather than educational reasons. Agree?

I would say you should have also gone for more English in your 'ciriculum'.

By necessity schools can only offer so many subjects. I would have liked to have done more Maths, Sciences, PE etc but could only choose 5 HSC subjects and opted for Accounting, Economics, Australian History and Geography to go with the compulsory English (which in my day you had to pass to get into further education; my brother is an Associate Professor in Geography at Monash University and he tells me they have had for the last 20 years remedial English classes for those who failed it or performed weakly at what is now VCE).

Beoz

You see. You are so wound up in the public system, years of closed mind and patriotism, that all can do is insult and further look for ways to insult caused by resentment of the system you could never enter in to.

And you try and tell us you aren't left wing. Well you certainly display all the traits.

OzTennis

I could have entered into the private system (via a scholarship) but my parents and me didn't want to go down that route. You won't understand why so I won't explain.

I keep telling you I don't feel resentment. What I would like to see is merely a more egalitarian, fairer society. Private schools tend to reinforce the inequalities. Some reading on this, not in the form of a link which your closed mind rejects instantly.

In a UK context private education perpetuates a form of "social apartheid" and has given rise to a political class drawn from a "segregated elite" that does not understand or share the views of most people, the annual British social attitudes survey warns. The study by the National Centre for Social Research (NCSR) centres on why class matters more than ever in British life by looking at the educational background of respondents for the first time.

From this, researchers could identify a "sense of superiority bonus" that comes from attending a private school.
This "superiority" manifests itself in a belief that private education confers a higher position on the ladder of life.
After accounting for family background, the study found that the privately educated are still roughly twice as likely as state school pupils to see themselves as being middle or upper-middle class.
The privately schooled also have an in-built bias to value the work of "top people" more highly than others, because captains of industry and cabinet ministers were "people like us". This tendency is especially pronounced when considering how much people should be paid.
When asked how much a company chairman should earn on average, privately educated people suggested an average figure of £237,000 a year, £88,000 higher than the average level proposed by those who went to state schools.

State-educated respondents were also more concerned with social inequality. The NCSR said private schools "produced Conservative partisans".

You surely recognise your own sense of a superiority bonus, your exaggerated view of what the better off are worth, a lack of concern regarding social inequality and the fact that a Conservative/Liberal/Republican partisan has been bred?

Beoz

Of course. You can always do it better but only if ......... there's always an excuse.

Wow. That is one of the most bigoted, resentful, offensive and ill-informed things I have read in recent times.

The chosen wording reads like its saying its NOT OK to have achievements, earn money, and have aspirations for success.

We live in a society of freedoms, freedoms that allow but rarely encourage people to seek success. In our society people have variety of avenues for success and sometimes they strike it lucky. But imagine if we were all the same, imagine if it was wrong to try and teach people the following from my previous thread.

From my time at state schools to my time at private schools, the difference was the extra, the attitudes, the desires to win, the "lets go further" mentality that was drummed into you at private school which was not really present in the state system.

The problem with your opinion and the opinion of that author is that you have never spent any time in the private system. Teaching or as a pupil. Your view is biased and one sided. At least I can rest easy experiencing both systems. When people have little knowledge of the other system, the best they can do is insult with perceptions.

Well you'll be happy with this. You know it might just come back and bite you in the arse.

Revealed: the private schools set to have their funding cut by the Turnbull government

No doubt fees will rise reducing the ability for many to attend private schools. You know, the family where the father earns $150k and the mother earns $60k and only works to send the kids through private school.

There further reduces the egalitarian and fairer system.

And you know what, plenty of families under the above scenario send kids to private school.

More insults. Keep them coming. It just confirms you are out of your depth here.

I believe in effort and quite frankly I don't care where it comes from. I am about to fire a guy with an MBA and an engineering degree because he is a lazy arse and has no desire to win.

He can have all the education he wants but without the effort and desire to win he's a gonner.

If that's a superiority bonus then so be it. I'll take it.

Hey and while your there, I always love to hear good stories about private schools giving back to the ghetto - and Mt Druitt is a ghetto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtley_Beale

I wonder where Kurtley would be today without this school doing a deal with Kurtley - you help us win rugby and we'll give you a free private school education. And lets call a spade a spade. Its a deal between 2 participants.

OzTennis

It is research into attitudes and don't shoot the messenger but this is what they found about the attitudes of those who had private schooling vs those who had state schooling. Why do you say it's bigoted (and probably Donald would say it's 'fake news') when it is stating what people from the 2 education systems think? 'That author' is the National Institute of Economic and Social Research. You are trying to make out it is the opinion of one person (and me) when it is the result of research into attitudes carried out by an independent and respected research body in the UK.

The matter being debated is private schools and their effect on social inequality as far as I'm concerned; Beale, someone you employ etc not relevant. Laziness is in people from all walks of life, irrespective of which system they were educated in.

I've pointed out before you have no knowledge of my contact with the private system. My wife taught in it for 5 years in Australia and I visited the school, socialised with her fellow teachers and coached their tennis and soccer teams. I've been in to private schools to moderate their courses, been to conferences with their teachers, coached many a private school pupil at tennis - I'm not as you want to believe to reinforce your prejudices someone who has no knowledge of or contact with the private system.

It must be said that Australia is much more egalitarian than the UK and the private system is less influential and deferred to in the former than the latter.

I wasn't insulting, I was saying there's the research showing the attitudes of those who are private school educated, isn't it what you see when you look in that mirror?

'that author' - http://www.niesr.ac.uk/

Beoz

I did refer to you and the author. I thought you were a gun at reading. Obviously not.

I have already told you what private schools are about. Are you going to keep asking until you get the answer you want to hear or until is matches the bigoted, ill-informed niesr guff?

I really think you are struggling to distinguish between your own jealousy and resentment and the "will to achieve" private schools attempt to promote amongst their pupils.

Its akin to the way Hilter despised the Jews for the interest they charged on loans and that they became captains of industry. And look how well that ended.

The National Institute of Economic and Social Research is the same organisation that said debt was OK and austerity measures were not needed after the GFC. This organisation is not respected at all.

And for what its worth, socialising with private school teachers doesn't even come close to having an understanding on what private schools are all about. You haven't even come close to the system to have a valid opinion.

xizzles

Oh no. Godwin's law again!?

OzTennis

As the research said, no understanding of the way the majority of people think.

Do you have any knowledge of the state system?

The contact I've had is far from sparse or non-existent you suggest. Socialising was one thing I mentioned.

NIESR does research for the UK Treasury and international organisations and hardly what you try to make out!!!!

End of - more important things to do than argue the 'toss' with you.

Beoz

They said "most people" according to your text. What did they take a national vote? Clearly not. Just an assumption. Their opinion (not results of research) are assumptions at best

Already mentioned that. I thought you were a gun at reading.

Ok

From the organisation the declares "most people" without doing a vote. Ok. One should ask why they conducted such a vicious study in the first place against a minority group. I wonder what would happen if they did one about immigrants, homosexuals or women.

Ok

Beoz

Ha. Well he was getting close. I feel like I'm going to be marched to the chambers by "most people"

OzTennis

Until a national vote involving all is taken on attitudes you won't believe the results of research conducted by an independent body used by the government because you don't like the results? Research uses sampling techniques to give a representative sample of the whole population - it is too expensive to have a sample of 100% of the population of course. You'll say surveys got Brexit and Trump wrong but they were only a few % out and surveys such as NIESR must have a reasonably representative view. You are not going to suggest if ALL people were asked that private school products won't hold the views the NIESR research suggested are you? Yes, no or maybe?