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Old Sep 4th 2017, 9:31 pm   #61
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

The rhetoric coming from America is 'pose a realistic threat to America or her allies, you can expect a world of hurt'. I can't help thinking that Obama wouldn't be getting labelled a warmonger, rather haled as a wonderfully strong president.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 9:57 pm   #62
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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The rhetoric coming out of the US is a bit worrying. Nikki Haley claiming that NK is "begging for war" is over-ratcheting. if there is to be an attack against NK, surely it is SK (and probably Japan) that have the final word, and not the USA. Especially with the clown at the helm.
If it's US military might being flexed I doubt it will be the RoK and Japan making the call.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 10:09 pm   #63
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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If it's US military might being flexed I doubt it will be the RoK and Japan making the call.
Yep, and I think Kim's neighbours would be happy to let the yanks come in and clear up their back yard free of charge. China should probably have stepped on him / his old man years ago, but they know the seppos can't resist stepping up to the plate.

I would reiterate however, that I still think that this has the stench of orchestration all over it. Be interesting to see how we've all been ****ed over while we've been obsessing over this.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 11:10 pm   #64
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

All any of us know about North Korea and its rulers is what the Western main-stream media tells us - and we should remember that it was the MSM organs that persuaded the Western powers to invade and occupy the countries of the Middle East and North Africa. Saddam's WMDs, and all that... Also, not only don't we genuinely know what's driving the NK bombast, we (most of us) don't know anything about Korean history and its collective generations-long hatred and resentment of Japan. There's nothing at all "mad" about that. Indeed, it is perfectly reasonable for Korea to want to smack Japan in the face for past oppression and atrocities, and Kim and his cabal may well have a lot of Chinese sympathy in that regard. Most Chinese have probably never forgiven Japan for its atrocities in the 1930s.

Taking those factors into account, Korea's atomic bombs are much more likely to be aimed at Japan than at the USA - at least to begin with. If you Google "William Engdahl Korea" you will find a thoughtful essay on this general topic by a generally well-respected commentator on international affairs.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 8:43 am   #65
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow View Post
All any of us know about North Korea and its rulers is what the Western main-stream media tells us - and we should remember that it was the MSM organs that persuaded the Western powers to invade and occupy the countries of the Middle East and North Africa. Saddam's WMDs, and all that... Also, not only don't we genuinely know what's driving the NK bombast, we (most of us) don't know anything about Korean history and its collective generations-long hatred and resentment of Japan. There's nothing at all "mad" about that. Indeed, it is perfectly reasonable for Korea to want to smack Japan in the face for past oppression and atrocities, and Kim and his cabal may well have a lot of Chinese sympathy in that regard. Most Chinese have probably never forgiven Japan for its atrocities in the 1930s.

Taking those factors into account, Korea's atomic bombs are much more likely to be aimed at Japan than at the USA - at least to begin with. If you Google "William Engdahl Korea" you will find a thoughtful essay on this general topic by a generally well-respected commentator on international affairs.
That's simplistic. No country is going to nuke another for past grievances, not matter how atrocious. They won't do this as it's plain they will suffer just as dire consequences if they do. We do have some idea of what's going on in NK. Western journalists are there, and the missiles and bombs can be seen and measured. NK is quite happy to release their video propaganda as well. I think it's more likely that NK is intent on developing a nuclear deterent, though how they are going about it is bewildering.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 8:50 am   #66
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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If it's US military might being flexed I doubt it will be the RoK and Japan making the call.
Well I doubt it too, I am just saying that morally, they should have the call.

What I don't understand in Kim's drive to gain nuclear weapons is that he is not under threat. China doesn't appear to have any hostility towards NK or Kim, and indeed have an appeasement policy so far. SK isn't about to make any serious provocation, and that only leaves the US as a potential threat. But even for the US, NK would not be on the radar for regime change if they were not pursuing nuclear weapons. Kim seems to be his own worst enemy.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 9:20 am   #67
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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What I don't understand in Kim's drive to gain nuclear weapons is that he is not under threat. China doesn't appear to have any hostility towards NK or Kim, and indeed have an appeasement policy so far. SK isn't about to make any serious provocation, and that only leaves the US as a potential threat. But even for the US, NK would not be on the radar for regime change if they were not pursuing nuclear weapons. Kim seems to be his own worst enemy.
Yeah, my only thought is 'small man' syndrome. He wants a bunch of nukes on a bunch of ICBMs so that he can strut around saying "you must give me this, or else" and dictating to others.

Plus he can sell them to those with money, ISIS say, and proliferate around the world.

I can't see any way out of this without military action. It's not possible to wait much longer, and no diplomacy is going to deal with the threat. You physically have to level the R&D centres and kill the scientists (or the military hierarchy). And as things stand, that best achieved by leveling the place with missiles and bombs before they can react - a large scale preemptive strike.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 2:02 pm   #68
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Yeah, my only thought is 'small man' syndrome. He wants a bunch of nukes on a bunch of ICBMs so that he can strut around saying "you must give me this, or else" and dictating to others.

Plus he can sell them to those with money, ISIS say, and proliferate around the world.

I can't see any way out of this without military action. It's not possible to wait much longer, and no diplomacy is going to deal with the threat. You physically have to level the R&D centres and kill the scientists (or the military hierarchy). And as things stand, that best achieved by leveling the place with missiles and bombs before they can react - a large scale preemptive strike.

But if you do that the thousands of artillery pieces that he has ranged along the SK border unleash hell on Seoul. There is enough artillery to flatten the SK capital from a couple of phone calls. You would need to include all of those artillery positions in your pre-emptive strike as well, which makes it an order of magnitude more difficult to conduct a military strike.


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Old Sep 5th 2017, 3:02 pm   #69
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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But if you do that the thousands of artillery pieces that he has ranged along the SK border unleash hell on Seoul. There is enough artillery to flatten the SK capital from a couple of phone calls. You would need to include all of those artillery positions in your pre-emptive strike as well, which makes it an order of magnitude more difficult to conduct a military strike.


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That IS the problem. I don't think pre-emptive strike is a possibility.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 3:41 pm   #70
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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We do have some idea of what's going on in NK. Western journalists are there, and the missiles and bombs can be seen and measured. NK is quite happy to release their video propaganda as well. I think it's more likely that NK is intent on developing a nuclear deterent, though how they are going about it is bewildering.
Well, but the Western journalists have their own agendas, and I expect they work in concert with the US's intelligence agencies. As for the bewilderment factor - I think each side is a bit bewildered by the other: the US wonders why NK is shouting its head off, and NK wonders why the US is shouting its head off. I very much doubt that NK will actually start a war; I wish I could have as much doubt about the USA.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 11:08 pm   #71
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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But if you do that the thousands of artillery pieces that he has ranged along the SK border unleash hell on Seoul. There is enough artillery to flatten the SK capital from a couple of phone calls. You would need to include all of those artillery positions in your pre-emptive strike as well, which makes it an order of magnitude more difficult to conduct a military strike.
My understanding is that most of those artillery pieces don't have the range to hit Seoul (700 out of 14,000), and if SK hasn't put in place defensive measures over the decades that this has been a threat, then someone's head should roll.
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 12:02 am   #72
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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Well I doubt it too, I am just saying that morally, they should have the call.

What I don't understand in Kim's drive to gain nuclear weapons is that he is not under threat. China doesn't appear to have any hostility towards NK or Kim, and indeed have an appeasement policy so far. SK isn't about to make any serious provocation, and that only leaves the US as a potential threat. But even for the US, NK would not be on the radar for regime change if they were not pursuing nuclear weapons. Kim seems to be his own worst enemy.
They are also for domestic purposes. Kim does not give a toss about the North Korean people and his family has willingly engineered famines that killed over a million of its own citizens. He would not hesitate to nuke one of his own cities if a threat to his regime was brewing from there (ie, if a NK city played the role of Benghazi to Qaddafi or Homs to Assad).

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Old Sep 6th 2017, 12:07 am   #73
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

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Well, but the Western journalists have their own agendas, and I expect they work in concert with the US's intelligence agencies. As for the bewilderment factor - I think each side is a bit bewildered by the other: the US wonders why NK is shouting its head off, and NK wonders why the US is shouting its head off. I very much doubt that NK will actually start a war; I wish I could have as much doubt about the USA.
I trust Western journalists as much as I trust bank CEOs. "Getting the story right" has gone out the window, and the "fourth estate" sanctimony was exposed a long time ago. One of Barack Obama's press aides gave an enlightening interview about a year or two ago talking about how the average age of foreign correspondents today is 27 and that makes them easy to spin because they don't know anything, don't know how to properly use their sources, and get so excited that someone official wants to talk to them that they resort to stenography rather than reporting. George W. Bush's press aides used to use the "box" - priority seating to friendly reporters - and only reporters sitting in the "box" were allowed to ask questions. Consequently "getting into the box" became the priority for reporters.

Every Western leader in history has tried to manipulate the press; I think this generation of reporters is unique in that they openly want to be manipulated.
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Old Sep 13th 2017, 12:01 am   #74
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

A quick review of the last few years in the Middle East and elsewhere night convince anyone that it would be folly to put any trust in the West. Kim;s paranoia is simply a rational fear of those nutters in Washington !
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Old Sep 23rd 2017, 10:56 am   #75
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Default Re: Kim Jong Un

Looks like another, smaller, nuke test by NK.

https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthqua...ati7#executive

Either that, or something collapsed.
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