Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
Jan 21st 2018, 6:57 am
#16
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
The only reason I can begin to imagine to would consider, something well documented, as it is too close to home.
Please explain why the number of apprenticeships have declined so rapidly over the past decade plus? Regardless of initial cost (wages lower) there are far more considerations. A lot of business prefers a hands on fully qualified, ready to contribute fully from day one, especially if on a 457 that can be terminated with the employee dependant largely on keeping on 'the good side' of their employer.
I know you are not from here, but before in future you call a post of mine 'nonsense' you may reflect a little deeper , your limitations clearly evident into work place behaviour though hardly restricted to that subject alone.
Please explain why the number of apprenticeships have declined so rapidly over the past decade plus? Regardless of initial cost (wages lower) there are far more considerations. A lot of business prefers a hands on fully qualified, ready to contribute fully from day one, especially if on a 457 that can be terminated with the employee dependant largely on keeping on 'the good side' of their employer.
I know you are not from here, but before in future you call a post of mine 'nonsense' you may reflect a little deeper , your limitations clearly evident into work place behaviour though hardly restricted to that subject alone.
It seems to me that people are still getting apprenceships of sorts - has it just been renamed? Is it just a tighter market?
Jan 21st 2018, 8:59 am
#17
MODERATOR
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 29,874
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
Also, if work dries up, the apprentice is laid off and left looking for someone to pick up the practical experience training since most apprentices seem to be taken on by an RTO and farmed out to employers to get the on-the-job training. You can't pass an apprenticeship until you have completed both technical training and practical experience.
Jan 22nd 2018, 7:38 am
#18
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
No afraid not. Without going into too much detail I'll just quote you the figures.
Australia Wide.......282,500 as of June last year......
Compare this with 515,000 in June 2012. Even you may concede this is quite a fall.
Even Chamber of Commerce voiced concern......
Jan 22nd 2018, 8:39 am
#19
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
Please explain why the number of apprenticeships have declined so rapidly over the past decade plus? Regardless of initial cost (wages lower) there are far more considerations. A lot of business prefers a hands on fully qualified, ready to contribute fully from day one, especially if on a 457 that can be terminated with the employee dependant largely on keeping on 'the good side' of their employer.
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BriefingBook45p/Apprenticeships
Nothing about imported labour. The apprenticeship topic is an utter failed argument to throw at your skilled migration resentment.
Officially I have lived in Australia for more than half my life. Speaking of nonsense.
Jan 26th 2018, 11:37 am
#20
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
My youngest got so much grief from teachers for knowing point blank that she had no intention of going to Uni. Some of the teachers told her she had to. They'd talk to me practically on a weekly basis (I worked in the school for several years) and ask me why I wasn't insisting she 'sort herself out'. They didn't like my response. If she wanted to go, she'd have made sure she got what she wanted but she didn't. If she changes her mind in x years so be it but I actually really hate that schools almost force Uni straight from school. Most kids suffer some form of education overload and to finish Grade 12 then two months later start Uni is madness imo.
Jan 26th 2018, 8:33 pm
#21
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
Isn't it the case though, that when university degrees become commonplace, they then become the minimum qualification standard any but the most basic jobs? That seems to be the case in Canada, and increasingly in the UK. Obviously technical qualifications are an exception to this.
Jan 26th 2018, 9:14 pm
#22
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
At present they go from school to school to university and they are all treated the same by the kid - with the consequence that they think university is to be treated the same as a kiddy class (ignoring they are paying large sums for it), and they get dumped out of university with a piece of paper and no smarts about the world (particularly in Australia).
We are in a world where that piece of paper is an entry slip to most reasonable jobs, but where it doesn't really actually grant you entry anymore. The positions just aren't there, companies won't train, and graduates are expected to work for nothing just to get some experience. And that's only going to get worse over the coming years.
As far as I can see you are better off learning the basics of entrepreneurship and running your own business if you are looking at future prospects, with the university thing being a tickbox item. And that's an ideal activity for a gap year, as well as seeing something of the world. Get a company off the ground and either don't bother with university at all, or have something to generate income whilst you acquire the piece of paper.
Jan 29th 2018, 5:30 am
#23
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 392
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
My youngest got so much grief from teachers for knowing point blank that she had no intention of going to Uni. Some of the teachers told her she had to. They'd talk to me practically on a weekly basis (I worked in the school for several years) and ask me why I wasn't insisting she 'sort herself out'. They didn't like my response. If she wanted to go, she'd have made sure she got what she wanted but she didn't. If she changes her mind in x years so be it but I actually really hate that schools almost force Uni straight from school. Most kids suffer some form of education overload and to finish Grade 12 then two months later start Uni is madness imo.
Sometimes the vehicle changes to get to your destination
It infuriates my daughters school that the teachers need to address my wife as "Dr" when she is part timing as teachers aide.
Feb 1st 2018, 12:19 pm
#24
Mostly Harmless
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Semi-rural wonderworld, Brisbane
Posts: 15,109
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
Nope, I don’t have a Degree and my wife has three.
We are both still alive so therefore I win based on net brain effort expended.
Three degrees, yes, the jokes write themselves.
I have a cycling proficiency certificate and a HND in Software Engineering (Distinction first year then discovered drinking, guitars and women so ended with a lowly Merit to flop over the line). Clearly better than any number of Degrees.
This cannot be rationally argued against, so don’t bother.
We are both still alive so therefore I win based on net brain effort expended.
Three degrees, yes, the jokes write themselves.
I have a cycling proficiency certificate and a HND in Software Engineering (Distinction first year then discovered drinking, guitars and women so ended with a lowly Merit to flop over the line). Clearly better than any number of Degrees.
This cannot be rationally argued against, so don’t bother.
Last edited by DeadVim; Feb 1st 2018 at 12:24 pm.
Feb 2nd 2018, 9:41 am
#25
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
Nope, I don’t have a Degree and my wife has three.
We are both still alive so therefore I win based on net brain effort expended.
Three degrees, yes, the jokes write themselves.
I have a cycling proficiency certificate and a HND in Software Engineering (Distinction first year then discovered drinking, guitars and women so ended with a lowly Merit to flop over the line). Clearly better than any number of Degrees.
This cannot be rationally argued against, so don’t bother.
We are both still alive so therefore I win based on net brain effort expended.
Three degrees, yes, the jokes write themselves.
I have a cycling proficiency certificate and a HND in Software Engineering (Distinction first year then discovered drinking, guitars and women so ended with a lowly Merit to flop over the line). Clearly better than any number of Degrees.
This cannot be rationally argued against, so don’t bother.
Feb 2nd 2018, 9:57 am
#26
I still dont believe it..
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,777
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
Just my 2p worth
An apprenticeship is invaluable for any ‘trade’ and typically shows commitment.
A degree can be vocational in which case see above, but mainly they are proof of very little. As has been said, as an interviewer im loking to see what else they did while getting their degree as they are devalued generally. I’d prefer someone who worked diligently in a weekend job while doing a degree - even in starbucks. I remember a great employee - he did a botany degree while working in a brewery at weekends. After 3 years the brewery would have taken him on as an actual brewer - he had followed their apprentice training informally at weekends - but they couldnt match the career i could offer in it. Botany was irrelevant - he was a worker - bright and provably adaptable.
An apprenticeship is invaluable for any ‘trade’ and typically shows commitment.
A degree can be vocational in which case see above, but mainly they are proof of very little. As has been said, as an interviewer im loking to see what else they did while getting their degree as they are devalued generally. I’d prefer someone who worked diligently in a weekend job while doing a degree - even in starbucks. I remember a great employee - he did a botany degree while working in a brewery at weekends. After 3 years the brewery would have taken him on as an actual brewer - he had followed their apprentice training informally at weekends - but they couldnt match the career i could offer in it. Botany was irrelevant - he was a worker - bright and provably adaptable.
Feb 2nd 2018, 10:54 am
#27
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
Nope, I don’t have a Degree and my wife has three.
We are both still alive so therefore I win based on net brain effort expended.
Three degrees, yes, the jokes write themselves.
I have a cycling proficiency certificate and a HND in Software Engineering (Distinction first year then discovered drinking, guitars and women so ended with a lowly Merit to flop over the line). Clearly better than any number of Degrees.
This cannot be rationally argued against, so don’t bother.
We are both still alive so therefore I win based on net brain effort expended.
Three degrees, yes, the jokes write themselves.
I have a cycling proficiency certificate and a HND in Software Engineering (Distinction first year then discovered drinking, guitars and women so ended with a lowly Merit to flop over the line). Clearly better than any number of Degrees.
This cannot be rationally argued against, so don’t bother.
Feb 9th 2018, 4:16 am
#28
Coventry to Caloundra....
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Caloundra, Sunshine Coast, Queensland
Posts: 534
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
Nope, I don’t have a Degree and my wife has three.
We are both still alive so therefore I win based on net brain effort expended.
Three degrees, yes, the jokes write themselves.
I have a cycling proficiency certificate and a HND in Software Engineering (Distinction first year then discovered drinking, guitars and women so ended with a lowly Merit to flop over the line). Clearly better than any number of Degrees.
This cannot be rationally argued against, so don’t bother.
We are both still alive so therefore I win based on net brain effort expended.
Three degrees, yes, the jokes write themselves.
I have a cycling proficiency certificate and a HND in Software Engineering (Distinction first year then discovered drinking, guitars and women so ended with a lowly Merit to flop over the line). Clearly better than any number of Degrees.
This cannot be rationally argued against, so don’t bother.
Can I have a go at rationally arguing? What exactly are the three degrees? I'm guessing one might be an actual undergraduate degree - three or four years? And the other two are shorter - possibly post-graduate certificate or diplomas that would only have been 4 - 8 subjects taking maybe a year or two part-time max? In total she may have amassed her three degrees in what, say 4 or 6 years? When people say three degrees we sometimes might think thats at least 9 - 12 years of full-on study. The fact that you have a HND and I have a HNC and we're both still alive is worth celebrating
Feb 9th 2018, 9:55 am
#29
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Education Is A Degree Still Worth Doing?
Can I have a go at rationally arguing? What exactly are the three degrees? I'm guessing one might be an actual undergraduate degree - three or four years? And the other two are shorter - possibly post-graduate certificate or diplomas that would only have been 4 - 8 subjects taking maybe a year or two part-time max? In total she may have amassed her three degrees in what, say 4 or 6 years? When people say three degrees we sometimes might think thats at least 9 - 12 years of full-on study. The fact that you have a HND and I have a HNC and we're both still alive is worth celebrating
