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Old Aug 14th 2017, 11:12 pm   #76
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Anyone reading his Wikipedia entry can see that his father was born in New Zealand. It doesn't take very much to then ask the question about whether he's a NZ citizen by descent. I have slightly more sympathy for those caught out by being citizens by descent rather than by birth but not much.
His father moved to Australia as a British subject in 1947. The following year, New Zealand created the Citizenship Act of 1948 and as a result, claimed a whole bunch of people as their own.

The laws of other countries is going to trip a lot of MP's up. This has not finished by a long shot.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...de9cb730613a9b

Australia really wants to fast track changes to the constitution in now so the laws of other countries aren't governing Australia, and costing us tax payers time and money.

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Old Aug 14th 2017, 11:14 pm   #77
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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According to SBS, NZ Labour MP Chris Hipkins made the inquiries to Peter Dunne, though as you noted people were sniffing around beforehand.

Whatever, I believe Parliament should be Australian-only, no conflicts-of-interest. Don't care if you are Green or National.

Doesn't New Zealand have an election in 6 weeks? You would think an NZ Labour MP would have better things to be worrying about right now.
Yep typical Labor party, they are a filthy bunch.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...de9cb730613a9b

RACHEL BAXENDALE
41 MINUTES AGO | 8.32AM
Labour asked NZ Labor to help

New Zealand Labour leader Jacinda Ardern has confirmed Australian Labor asked NZ Labour frontbencher Chris Hipkins to look into Barnaby Joyce’s citizenship status.

Ms Ardern said Mr Hipkins should not have put questions to NZ Internal Affairs Minister Peter Dunne regarding Mr Joyce.

“I found out about those yesterday when the media story broke and contacted Chris to ask around the nature of the questions he’d asked,” Ms Ardern told radio NZ this morning.

“He’s been very clear: Yes, someone from the ALP put some legal question to him around citizenship, no mention was made of anyone’s name, no rationale for any particular case being pursued was ever raised.

“He asked the questions without knowing how that might be used and has made it very clear, in hindsight, had he known how it would be used, he would not have asked the questions.”

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Old Aug 14th 2017, 11:57 pm   #78
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
His father moved to Australia as a British subject in 1947. The following year, New Zealand created the Citizenship Act of 1948 and as a result, claimed a whole bunch of people as their own.

The laws of other countries is going to trip a lot of MP's up. This has not finished by a long shot.

Nocookies | The Australian

Australia really wants to fast track changes to the constitution in now so the laws of other countries aren't governing Australia, and costing us tax payers time and money.
I think we can safely conclude that as his father left NZ before NZ citizenship even existed the very premise that NZ can claim Joyce as a Kiwi is unfounded. Born here to a 5th generation Aussie and a British subject, the whole thing is getting a bit farcical and Shorten mouthing off is doing him way more harm than good, long may he continue.
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 12:11 am   #79
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Originally Posted by cresta57 View Post
I think we can safely conclude that as his father left NZ before NZ citizenship even existed the very premise that NZ can claim Joyce as a Kiwi is unfounded. Born here to a 5th generation Aussie and a British subject, the whole thing is getting a bit farcical and Shorten mouthing off is doing him way more harm than good, long may he continue.
I am glad you and I can safely conclude that.
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 12:37 am   #80
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Australia really wants to fast track changes to the constitution in now so the laws of other countries aren't governing Australia, and costing us tax payers time and money.
What, like attempting ridiculously expensive plebisites they can then ignore? Yeah, don't hold your breath. (ignoring the other countries bit obviously ) Governments aren't known for their use of the common sense approach.
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 1:10 am   #81
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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I think we can safely conclude that as his father left NZ before NZ citizenship even existed the very premise that NZ can claim Joyce as a Kiwi is unfounded.
I think we can safely conclude that since the laws were clear before Joyce even stood, and would have taken about 30mins max to determine that his NZ father made him a citizen - he didn't do even the minimum amount of checking before he attested on the form that he didn't have dual citizenship. Complete criminal negligence.

I think we can also safely conclude that both the parties, and the AEC don't do even the most minimal of checks before they allow someone to stand. Again negligent.

Is it any wonder that Australia is so mismanaged when this is the standard of people supposed to be making complex decisions?
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 3:36 am   #82
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
I think we can safely conclude that since the laws were clear before Joyce even stood, and would have taken about 30mins max to determine that his NZ father made him a citizen - he didn't do even the minimum amount of checking before he attested on the form that he didn't have dual citizenship. Complete criminal negligence.

I think we can also safely conclude that both the parties, and the AEC don't do even the most minimal of checks before they allow someone to stand. Again negligent.

Is it any wonder that Australia is so mismanaged when this is the standard of people supposed to be making complex decisions?
If he were a true citizen he'd have a certificate to say so. I have an Australian Citizenship certificate. I have a birth certificate that shows I was born in the U.K. Joyce has a birth certificate that shows he was born in Australia.
He would have to actually apply for his NZ citizenship as do all children born in Australia to NZ parents. There are countless people complaining about the fact they have to pay for their children to become NZ citizens when they themselves are Kiwis. My neighbour has just paid for her two children to become NZ citizens.
It's a non argument to say that someone born here to Australian parents, his father arrived in 1947 so automatically became an Australian citizen in 1949 under the act, isn't an Aussie. Sure he may qualify for citizenship by descent but he'd actually have to apply for it like Matt Canavan's mother [allegedly] did.
Can a foreign power conspire with an incumbent opposition to bring down an elected govt? It appears that by "gifting" Joyce citizenship without him applying for it is doing exactly that. That is the issue that needs addressing and legislation put in place.
Given that Senator Roberts is a member of the apparently racist one nation party. What's to stop India from gifting him citizenship & presenting a certificate to him and therefore making him ineligible for the senate?

So far we also have:
Waters born overseas and a Canadian resident, no problems with that one.
Ludlam born overseas and a NZ resident, no problems with that one either.
Canavan born here and his mum applied for Italian citizenship without telling him. A bit dodgy to say the least. More to come on this one.
Roberts Born in India a nutter that believes in the sovereign citizen movement, quite why he's in government when he doesn't believe in the very concept is amusing as much as hypocritical.
Lastly [for now]we have:
Julia Banks Born in Melbourne but of Greek heritage, well her father was born there, again never taken up Greek citizenship yet claimed by the loony left to quite clearly be Greek. I accept that Melbourne has the highest population of Greeks outside of Athens but come on Bill it's still in Australia.
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 3:44 am   #83
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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If he were a true citizen he'd have a certificate to say so. I have an Australian Citizenship certificate. I have a birth certificate that shows I was born in the U.K. Joyce has a birth certificate that shows he was born in Australia.
He would have to actually apply for his NZ citizenship as do all children born in Australia to NZ parents. There are countless people complaining about the fact they have to pay for their children to become NZ citizens when they themselves are Kiwis. My neighbour has just paid for her two children to become NZ citizens.
Hmm, I think I'll be taking the word of the NZ PM on the issue :

Quote:
"Unwittingly, or not, he's a New Zealand citizen".
The certificate isn't the citizenship, just the proof of the citzenship. Joyce is an NZ citizen - that ship has sailed.

What's worse, it wasn't ever really a complicated or difficult thing to determine. You can go on an NZ website, answer a few questions and get a preliminary answer in a few minutes. Even in 2005 it might take half an hour, tops.

And if you are signing a legal form to day you aren't a dual citizen, and have an NZ father, you'd check if you're not a complete numpty.
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 3:56 am   #84
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Can a foreign power conspire with an incumbent opposition to bring down an elected govt? It appears that by "gifting" Joyce citizenship without him applying for it is doing exactly that. That is the issue that needs addressing and legislation put in place.
Not really. It's not like they gifted him last week, it was when he was a toddler. I don't think anyone was imagining he'd be in Government and it could help bring down said government.
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 4:01 am   #85
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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A reporter for Fairfax was alerted last week, did a little digging, then went asking for a statement. They decided to give them a little time on Friday, and today we have the admission.

Probably didn't come from NZ Labour. Probably came from much closer to home, probably in the National party. The coalition knows they are screwed, they are just looking for time to try and find out how much Katter wants.
I tweeted Barnaby Joyce in July and asked if he renounced NZ citizenship as his father was born in NZ and I thought he was likely a citizen by descent - think I said so on here too.
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 4:17 am   #86
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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If he were a true citizen he'd have a certificate to say so. I have an Australian Citizenship certificate. I have a birth certificate that shows I was born in the U.K. Joyce has a birth certificate that shows he was born in Australia....
You do not need a certificate to show you are a true citizen. Lots of people have children here who are British Citizens by descent who have neither passport or certificate - and neither is needed to be a citizen (proving it maybe but even that can be done without a child having either).
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 4:31 am   #87
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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What's worse, it wasn't ever really a complicated or difficult thing to determine. You can go on an NZ website, answer a few questions and get a preliminary answer in a few minutes. Even in 2005 it might take half an hour, tops.

And if you are signing a legal form to day you aren't a dual citizen, and have an NZ father, you'd check if you're not a complete numpty.
And that's where the complication lies. His father was a British subject when he left New Zealand.

So the Aust Labor Party went and asked the NZ Labor party "do you own Joyce?".

So either that numpty in the Aust Labor Party couldn't figure it out, or they were more than happy to use a foreign government to disable their own government. (Treason anyone)

Which is worse?

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Old Aug 15th 2017, 4:45 am   #88
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

............ and here we go.

Australian and New Zealand relations hit rock bottom.

Julie Bishop says she could not trust a New Zealand Labour government after Barnaby fiasco
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 5:19 am   #89
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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So either that numpty in the Aust Labor Party couldn't figure it out, or they were more than happy to use a foreign government to disable their own government. (Treason anyone)

Which is worse?
Oh the coalition trying to keep someone that it's plain wasn't lawfully elected to parliament are most definitely in the wrong. That could be considered a criminal act (which I'm sure Labor have lined up).

Seeking evidence that someone lied to become an MP is a positive act, one that should be applauded. Where do you think that evidence is going to come from if not NZ?

Of course, the coalition are trying to muddy the waters - to cover over their actions. It's all going Pete Tong, and as they apparently, needlessly, sh*t on Katter, it's going to get even more of a mess in the near future.
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 5:47 am   #90
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Oh the coalition trying to keep someone that it's plain wasn't lawfully elected to parliament are most definitely in the wrong. That could be considered a criminal act (which I'm sure Labor have lined up).

Seeking evidence that someone lied to become an MP is a positive act, one that should be applauded. Where do you think that evidence is going to come from if not NZ?

Of course, the coalition are trying to muddy the waters - to cover over their actions. It's all going Pete Tong, and as they apparently, needlessly, sh*t on Katter, it's going to get even more of a mess in the near future.
Shall we revisit post 73 again?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

They are having a good laugh over the ditch

44. Any person who -

(i.) Is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power: or

Every Australian is entitled to the rights and privileges of Kiwi's. Schooling, Health Care, Superannuation, even the right to vote.

New Zealand is buying a population and in one way or another, every member of parliament falls foul of New Zealands privileges.

Should be a no brainer for the high court based on the current wording of Section 44.
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