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Old Jul 27th 2017, 11:07 am   #46
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Except that he admits to discussing it in 2005 or 2006, which would mean that they looked at whether or not they were Italian by descent - and since that is without limitation he should have realised that he was Italian by descent from birth and the forms were only to go on the register of Italians living abroad from what I've read online.

It would be fair enough to plead ignorance if the subject had never come up, but as a family they did look at the rules which are simple - you are Italian by descent if one of your parents was Italian at the time of your birth which is obviously true. The fact that he did not register does not alter the fact that he has been Italian since birth, and aware of that since those discussions. He should have done the what the green's did and resigned from senate.
I'm actually a bit surprised that he's still trying to hang on. Since the story this morning that he was on their books and his mum at least had been getting ballots for him, he must know the gig is up. Trying to say 'but I didn't know' isn't really going to wash - nobody is going to believe him and if he had any integrity, he'd resign. As it stands the best case for him is his mum goes to jail for fraud, but I'll bet his authenticated signature is found on the paperwork.

Oh, and I got it wrong before, he's a national, not a lib - I guess they need the numbers even more.
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Old Jul 27th 2017, 12:33 pm   #47
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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I'm actually a bit surprised that he's still trying to hang on. Since the story this morning that he was on their books and his mum at least had been getting ballots for him, he must know the gig is up. Trying to say 'but I didn't know' isn't really going to wash - nobody is going to believe him and if he had any integrity, he'd resign. As it stands the best case for him is his mum goes to jail for fraud, but I'll bet his authenticated signature is found on the paperwork.

Oh, and I got it wrong before, he's a national, not a lib - I guess they need the numbers even more.
ABC radio was reporting that it had been confirmed his signature wasn't on any application documents. They also reported that his mother was born in Australia. I guess the truth will out in the high court.

I'm thinking of applying for for Danish citizenship as they settled in our village in 866AD surely I must qualify as Danish........
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Old Jul 27th 2017, 12:40 pm   #48
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Except that he admits to discussing it in 2005 or 2006, which would mean that they looked at whether or not they were Italian by descent - and since that is without limitation he should have realised that he was Italian by descent from birth and the forms were only to go on the register of Italians living abroad from what I've read online.

It would be fair enough to plead ignorance if the subject had never come up, but as a family they did look at the rules which are simple - you are Italian by descent if one of your parents was Italian at the time of your birth which is obviously true. The fact that he did not register does not alter the fact that he has been Italian since birth, and aware of that since those discussions. He should have done the what the green's did and resigned from senate.
Section 44 precludes people from being candidates for the federal parliament if they are "under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power".

Well lets see what the high court has to say. Your suspicion is not fact ..... yet.

Obviously Garry has another evil motive as per usual, and wants Labor to be in power by deception (Mediscare) or whatever it takes, but fair is fair, and if his legal advice suggests he is not in breach of section 44, he should be allowed to follow the process.

There also seems to be conflicting Italian citizenship legal advice on whether one has to sign forms or not. ...... like all good things Italian, bloody disorganised.
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Old Jul 27th 2017, 12:58 pm   #49
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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ABC radio was reporting that it had been confirmed his signature wasn't on any application documents.
Can't find any reference to proof his signature wasn't on the docs, just the claim that "my mum did it".

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But he said he was not prepared to release the documents showing the papers his mother filled in.

"These now will be matter for the court to look at and it is not appropriate to run these conversations through the media," Senator Canavan said.
"They will all be revealed — there will be a time and a place for all this now once it goes before the court."

Problem is, that would drop his mum right in it, it's a criminal offense.


And he wouldn't have the documents, the Italians would.


Actually proving he was in the clear would make things go away, but it looks like he's just trying to kick the publicity can down the road, in the hope people will forget about it.


Given where we stand they probably need to audit every single member of parliament; and never take their word again.
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Old Jul 27th 2017, 1:32 pm   #50
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Can't find any reference to proof his signature wasn't on the docs, just the claim that "my mum did it".




Problem is, that would drop his mum right in it, it's a criminal offense.


And he wouldn't have the documents, the Italians would.


Actually proving he was in the clear would make things go away, but it looks like he's just trying to kick the publicity can down the road, in the hope people will forget about it.


Given where we stand they probably need to audit every single member of parliament; and never take their word again.
FFS dude, let it go. He says he never signed and now the High Court is going to decide if he's eligible - he will live or die by their decision

It's a good idea that the courts are getting involved as this situation is getting out of hand
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Old Jul 27th 2017, 1:52 pm   #51
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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....
I'm thinking of applying for for Danish citizenship as they settled in our village in 866AD surely I must qualify as Danish........
Danish Citizenship is only passed to those born to at least one Danish parent if they were born in Denmark before 2014. After 2014 if one parent is Danish, the child will also be Danish regardless of place of birth.
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Old Jul 27th 2017, 1:58 pm   #52
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

I still don't understand how forms can be submitted for an adult without that adult signing the forms and then Italy accepting his application with no signature. Makes no sense.
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Old Jul 27th 2017, 11:19 pm   #53
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Me to phwoarr I like Julie Bishop
She is so stylish...I wish I had her wardrobe!
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Old Jul 27th 2017, 11:29 pm   #54
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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I still don't understand how forms can be submitted for an adult without that adult signing the forms and then Italy accepting his application with no signature. Makes no sense.
Neither do I but then again its Italy. Perhaps he did sign, can't remember and that may come out in the wash. Innocent until proven guilty.
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Old Jul 28th 2017, 12:15 am   #55
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

Looks like the One Nation loon, Malcolm Roberts, is claiming the same type of timeline as suggested for abbott :

Malcolm Roberts says he renounced British citizenship before nomination but confirmation came after election - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

He claims he didn't think he was British, but still 'emailed' the UK, and it took 5 months for them to come back. 5 months is too long for a confirmation AFAIK, but it is right for the timeline to renounce citizenship. So ...

Now 9 are suggesting that up to 21 MPs are potentially dual citizens.

Citizenship crisis grows to engulf over 20 MPs
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Old Jul 28th 2017, 1:45 am   #56
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

Its just nuts that the focus is on the rules, rather than changing the rules.

Australia is a country of immigration. Tanya Pilbersek's parents are immigrants from Slovenia and if there's some bizarre Slovenian law that states you are automatically a citizen if you are a child of citizens, then she's screwed too.

Of course the wording in Section 44 might lead to a get out clause, but still, this rule is just absurd and the focus should be on changing it NOW.
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Old Jul 28th 2017, 1:52 am   #57
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Its just nuts that the focus is on the rules, rather than changing the rules.

Australia is a country of immigration. Tanya Pilbersek's parents are immigrants from Slovenia and if there's some bizarre Slovenian law that states you are automatically a citizen if you are a child of citizens, then she's screwed too.

Of course the wording in Section 44 might lead to a get out clause, but still, this rule is just absurd and the focus should be on changing it NOW.
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Old Jul 28th 2017, 5:39 am   #58
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Its just nuts that the focus is on the rules, rather than changing the rules.

Australia is a country of immigration. Tanya Pilbersek's parents are immigrants from Slovenia and if there's some bizarre Slovenian law that states you are automatically a citizen if you are a child of citizens, then she's screwed too.

Of course the wording in Section 44 might lead to a get out clause, but still, this rule is just absurd and the focus should be on changing it NOW.
I'm not sure there is any get out as the wording is "or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power".

I read about Tanya Plibersek this morning but there will be many more. Cory Bernadi has at least one Italian parent so would also be Italian from birth. Barnaby Joyce's father was born in New Zealand so would be a NZ citizen by descent.

It shouldn't be a surprise though since most of us know that if we have children born in Australia they are British by descent. I agree that there should be focus on changing the rule, but in the meantime those who are ineligible should stand down until either they renounce the other citizenship or the rules change. This is not a new law or an obscure law - there was talk about it with Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott so they have had past opportunity to discuss or change the law.
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Old Jul 29th 2017, 9:22 am   #59
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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I still don't understand how forms can be submitted for an adult without that adult signing the forms and then Italy accepting his application with no signature. Makes no sense.

I am somewhat familiar with Italian Citizenship law and I find it extremely difficult to believe that, at age 25, he was not asked to sign anything (or that this process could be done without his knowledge). His mother hid his ballot papers from him? Come on.

I believe he knew he was a dual national, and I believe the two Greens politicians knew they were dual nationals as well. These are highly educated and well-traveled people. It is just part of human intelligence that, if one has a foreign national parent, at some point to ask the question "I wonder if I am a citizen of that country too?"

I think they all thought they would never get caught, or if they did, that nobody would care enough to make them resign.

By the way, have the two Greens who resigned, taken any steps to renounce?

I don't have a problem with Members of Parliament having to be Australian Citizens only. This is a special role meant to represent the national interest. Conflicts-of-interest with other nations should not be allowed.
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Old Jul 29th 2017, 11:27 am   #60
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

I may have misheard but there is some MP who was on some some government business and in Canada on his way to the US with his visa and was turned away apparently without explanation. He's claiming it was racial because he was born in Iranian. He then said he had dual nationality. So how is he an MP? May have misunderstood but I was serving up dinner so not concentrating.
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