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Old Aug 19th 2017, 9:02 am   #166
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
On the other hand, shouldn't we expect our politician's to be competent. If they are asked to sign that they do not have any other citizenships, or claims to one, is it too much to ask that they take 5 minutes to check. In most of the cases so far, that would have been all it took.

Additionally, it would be interesting to know that having 'discovered' they are dual citizens, how many have taken steps to now renounce that second citizenship.

All of the political parties should have processes in place to ensure that members remain within this law, and all laws really. Everyone is fed up with self serving politicians on all sides.
Checking is not a 5 minute job for many as you claim.

In the long run, to save on costs, our money, lets hope the high court do the right thing.

There are millions in Australia who have or are entitled to dual citizenship or rights in foreign countries. That's millions ineligible for parliment or need to pay money and go through time to check and renounce.

Stripping down the pool even further is the crap money politicians get paid. Therefore we mostly get the bottom of the pile. Wealthy in their own right exceptions include the PM.

And as we have seen, this is no easy task and can be riddled with errors.

Let logic rule.
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 9:24 am   #167
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Checking is not a 5 minute job for many as you claim.

In the long run, to save on costs, our money, lets hope the high court do the right thing.

There are millions in Australia who have or are entitled to dual citizenship or rights in foreign countries. That's millions ineligible for parliment or need to pay money and go through time to check and renounce.

Stripping down the pool even further is the crap money politicians get paid. Therefore we mostly get the bottom of the pile. Wealthy in their own right exceptions include the PM.

And as we have seen, this is no easy task and can be riddled with errors.

Let logic rule.
A basic check would not take more than 5 minutes or so though, and checking generally does not cost anything - google, national websites and similar can give you a basic view for free. Especially when you consider that for most of the cases so far the politician was either born overseas, or has a parent that was. I think Matt Canavan would be the exception to this, as I think it was a grandparent and Italy allows citizenship to continue indefinitely through the bloodline.

I am not saying that the rules do not need to be changed - but this is not about changing the rules - this is about applying the current one as it stands. For dual nationals, they must renounce the extra citizenship. For government employees, they have to give up their jobs.

I do think that this may bring about a change in the law for future potential applicants, but not sure that any different interpretation will be applied to current dual nationals, and this may cause issues if they continue to participate knowing they are likely ineligible. Additionally, by continuing to draw a salary and expenses knowing that they are likely ineligible, are they not committing fraud? Not what is wanted really.
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 9:32 am   #168
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Errrrrr. Difference argument sport. Is this all you have? Perhaps focus on whether one citizenship was more complex than the other.
All I have is the law which is all there is. There's nothing complex about it beyond your refusal to accept the blindingly obvious. The rest of your comments on this thread suggest you have a dog in the Lib-Lab fight; I do not. I would suggest trying to remove those political blinkers. It may aid your powers of comprehension.
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 9:47 am   #169
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Thanks SoS

(It was a bit of a generalisation wasn't it - oops )
Actually Sparkles, I think it was one of the best and most accurate comments in this entire thread!
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 9:50 am   #170
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
On the other hand, shouldn't we expect our politician's to be competent. If they are asked to sign that they do not have any other citizenships, or claims to one, is it too much to ask that they take 5 minutes to check. In most of the cases so far, that would have been all it took.
Yep, and can you imagine how many reporters are digging into the parentage of every MP, looking for a scoop? It's a giant game of "Who Do You Think You Are?" where you can bring down an illegitimate MP.

Funny thing is, it is 5-30mins of research in most of these cases to know if there is any smoke there. Barnaby could be demonstrated in 30 secs, Xenophon is on the other end of the scale. But you can home in on the questionable cases with pretty minimal effort.

And if the parties/AEC didn't do even this, how many have criminal connections or dodgy dealings?

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Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
Additionally, it would be interesting to know that having 'discovered' they are dual citizens, how many have taken steps to now renounce that second citizenship.
And how many are frantically trying to renounce their dual citizenships before it comes out - with fingers crossed - and keeping quiet. There are a lot of people misleading parliament methinks.

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Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
All of the political parties should have processes in place to ensure that members remain within this law, and all laws really. Everyone is fed up with self serving politicians on all sides.
And even more, I'll bet all the political parties will be targeting MPs on the other side to try and get rid. You can see the libs doing it with their letter to labor, trying to muddy the waters.
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 10:14 am   #171
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

Xenophon confirmed as a UK Citizen.
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 11:40 am   #172
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
A basic check would not take more than 5 minutes or so though, and checking generally does not cost anything - google, national websites and similar can give you a basic view for free. Especially when you consider that for most of the cases so far the politician was either born overseas, or has a parent that was. I think Matt Canavan would be the exception to this, as I think it was a grandparent and Italy allows citizenship to continue indefinitely through the bloodline.

I am not saying that the rules do not need to be changed - but this is not about changing the rules - this is about applying the current one as it stands. For dual nationals, they must renounce the extra citizenship. For government employees, they have to give up their jobs.

I do think that this may bring about a change in the law for future potential applicants, but not sure that any different interpretation will be applied to current dual nationals, and this may cause issues if they continue to participate knowing they are likely ineligible. Additionally, by continuing to draw a salary and expenses knowing that they are likely ineligible, are they not committing fraud? Not what is wanted really.
A basic check does take more tgan 5 minutes. Have you ever done it? I have.
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 11:44 am   #173
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

It is not necessarily a quick and easy thing, but politicians don't decide to run for office on the spur of the moment - I would expect they had thought this through beforehand. Especially in a country like Australia, where dual nationality is not uncommon. I suspect many of them did know they were dual nationals, or conveniently chose not to check, but ran anyways and just thought they would never get caught.

Government employees can be dual nationals, it is only for some specific security-minded professions that this isn't allowed.

I don't think the law should be changed just because some politicians got inconvenienced, nor do I think it is unreasonable to ask that those representing the interest of Australia renounce any other allegiances. We are talking about 150 people in the House of Representatives and 76 in the Senate. This is not a national tragedy that has swept up thousands of the innocent.

Last edited by carcajou; Aug 19th 2017 at 11:49 am.
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 12:05 pm   #174
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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A basic check does take more tgan 5 minutes. Have you ever done it? I have.
It just took around 30 seconds to confirm that Scott Ludlam would be a dual citizen - born in NZ to NZ parents - using NZ citizenship checker. It actually took longer for me to find his name.

Wikipedia told me in around the same time that Barnaby Joyce was likely a NZ Citizen by descent having a parent born in NZ. Enough so that if I was BJ and wanted to run for parliament I would do further checking.

So yes - a basic check can be done in 5 mins or less.
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 1:40 pm   #175
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
It just took around 30 seconds to confirm that Scott Ludlam would be a dual citizen - born in NZ to NZ parents - using NZ citizenship checker. It actually took longer for me to find his name.

Wikipedia told me in around the same time that Barnaby Joyce was likely a NZ Citizen by descent having a parent born in NZ. Enough so that if I was BJ and wanted to run for parliament I would do further checking.

So yes - a basic check can be done in 5 mins or less.
Let's be honest here, even if it took a week, if someone wants to be in government, they know the rules they have to abide by, I know, and knew, the rules and I have zero interest in being in Government. If you run for government it doesn't happen in a day, it takes months; interviews, discussions, checking if you've got dual nationality etc etc.

Some of the arguments on this are just silly.
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Old Aug 20th 2017, 3:28 am   #176
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Let's be honest here, even if it took a week, if someone wants to be in government, they know the rules they have to abide by, I know, and knew, the rules and I have zero interest in being in Government. If you run for government it doesn't happen in a day, it takes months; interviews, discussions, checking if you've got dual nationality etc etc.

Some of the arguments on this are just silly.
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Old Aug 21st 2017, 1:34 am   #177
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

After the Rugby on Saturday Barnaby Joyce has renounced his Australian citizenship
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Old Aug 21st 2017, 5:10 am   #178
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
It just took around 30 seconds to confirm that Scott Ludlam would be a dual citizen - born in NZ to NZ parents - using NZ citizenship checker. It actually took longer for me to find his name.

Wikipedia told me in around the same time that Barnaby Joyce was likely a NZ Citizen by descent having a parent born in NZ. Enough so that if I was BJ and wanted to run for parliament I would do further checking.

So yes - a basic check can be done in 5 mins or less.
Shearo67 needs your help.

Moving to the Uk

Its so confusing.
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Old Aug 21st 2017, 6:06 am   #179
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

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Shearo67 needs your help.

Moving to the Uk

Its so confusing.
I'm sure they'll get lots of help from BiP and other posters but their issue is nothing to do with dual citizenship so I suggest you stop trolling.
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Old Aug 21st 2017, 12:35 pm   #180
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Default Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?

Looks like there is another one with questions to answer, liberal Ann Sudmalis

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...passenger-card
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