Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
#91
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
The 'I didn't know' attempt at a defence isn't going to fly, since anyone could claim they 'didn't know' - ignorance is no innocence. The onus is on you to meet the requirements and not be :
a subject or a citizen
And even you could answer this for Joyce and get the appropriate answer.
https://www.govt.nz/browse/nz-passpo...e-a-citizen-2/
#92
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
if you want to stand.
And even you could answer this for Joyce and get the appropriate answer.
https://www.govt.nz/browse/nz-passpo...e-a-citizen-2/
I just went through and answered as Joyce would.
The tripper "Was at least 1 of your parents a New Zealand citizen when you were born?" In Joyce's case, he would honestly answer "No" because his father was a British subject when he left NZ.
The result "You are not a New Zealand citizen. You may not meet the requirements for NZ citizenship. Check the requirements."
#93
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
Is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or
adherence to a foreign power, or
is a subject or
a citizen or
entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power: or
See? They are all independent elements. And the third one is the the one that applies directly to Joyce. It doesn't say "and he knew about it", or "and he wasn't crossing his fingers". It simply states they aren't allowed to stand if a subject or a citizen. He was and is, so he isn't (an MP).adherence to a foreign power, or
is a subject or
a citizen or
entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power: or
Seriously, his father was born in NZ, it's not a complex one.
Here, how about this viewpoint :
"It's like if you're driving on the road without a licence and you get pulled over. Well, you're in a spot of bother. They were members of parliament. It's quite clear under Section 44, you can't be a member of parliament and have dual citizenship. It's black and white. The outcome is black and white. That's just, that's just the way it is...
I think you just have got to do your homework and make sure you're not a citizen of two countries when you stand for parliament ... ignorance is not an excuse"
Give you two guesses who's words those are ....
I think you just have got to do your homework and make sure you're not a citizen of two countries when you stand for parliament ... ignorance is not an excuse"
Last edited by GarryP; Aug 15th 2017 at 7:32 am.
#94
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
You do not need a certificate to show you are a true citizen. Lots of people have children here who are British Citizens by descent who have neither passport or certificate - and neither is needed to be a citizen (proving it maybe but even that can be done without a child having either).
I personally think a dubious claim that a person born in Australia can be adopted by another country without his/her consent is ridiculous. Kiwis consider all Aussies to be their citizens so imo as their [NZ] legislation stands at the moment every prospective member of parliament would need to renounce citizenship of NZ in order to be eligible to stand, you only need look at their wording.
I also further contest that his father was ever a NZ citizen it didn't exist in 1947 when he left. He moved here as a British subject, then, when the citizenship act came into force in 1949 he automatically became an Aussie citizen. You can't be something that didn't exist. Follow the link in the NZ citizenship application and when you get to the bit that says was either of your parents a NZ citizen at the time of your birth his 100% honest answer would be no. Unless he'd applied for it after 1949 [and before 1967] when his Aussie citizenship had been conferred upon him his father went straight from British subject to Aussie citizen.
#95
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
You're going to need to get better at reading legalise. Here, let me help you parse it :
Sorry, nope. Joyce, and his father, would know he was as a New Zealand citizen because all those born there got citizenship when they created it. Thus you would have (purposely) answered incorrectly.
Seriously, his father was born in NZ, it's not a complex one.
Here, how about this viewpoint :
Is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or
adherence to a foreign power, or
is a subject or
a citizen or
entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power: or
See? They are all independent elements. And the third one is the the one that applies directly to Joyce. It doesn't say "and he knew about it", or "and he wasn't crossing his fingers". It simply states they aren't allowed to stand if a subject or a citizen. He was and is, so he isn't (an MP).adherence to a foreign power, or
is a subject or
a citizen or
entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power: or
Sorry, nope. Joyce, and his father, would know he was as a New Zealand citizen because all those born there got citizenship when they created it. Thus you would have (purposely) answered incorrectly.
Seriously, his father was born in NZ, it's not a complex one.
Here, how about this viewpoint :
"It's like if you're driving on the road without a licence and you get pulled over. Well, you're in a spot of bother. They were members of parliament. It's quite clear under Section 44, you can't be a member of parliament and have dual citizenship. It's black and white. The outcome is black and white. That's just, that's just the way it is...
I think you just have got to do your homework and make sure you're not a citizen of two countries when you stand for parliament ... ignorance is not an excuse"
Give you two guesses who's words those are ....I think you just have got to do your homework and make sure you're not a citizen of two countries when you stand for parliament ... ignorance is not an excuse"
How would his father know what was going on in NZ if he was in Australia? News? When does the news in Australia report anything in NZ?
#96
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
So you have no idea what's happening with brexit?
#97
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
Brexit?
So how would his father know he was a Kiwi in 1948? Internet?
See post 94 if you don't like mine
#98
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
Oh dear, looks like another lib one, Ann Sudmalis, is a British citizen by descent :
Gilmore MP embroiled in dual citizenship scandal | South Coast Register
She currently 'looking to clarify' .... ahem.
Gilmore MP embroiled in dual citizenship scandal | South Coast Register
She currently 'looking to clarify' .... ahem.
76 coalition MPs, sitting on the bench
76 coalition MPs, sitting on the bench
And if one coalition MP should accidentally fall.
There'll be not enough coalition MPs, sitting on the bench...
76 coalition MPs, sitting on the bench
And if one coalition MP should accidentally fall.
There'll be not enough coalition MPs, sitting on the bench...
#99
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
He's applying a 2017 24hr media perspective to 1947 Tamworth, be lucky to even get a reliable radio signal back then, crikey they can't even get a mobile signal in 2017. Maybe they trained Kiwi birds as carrier pigeons
#100
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
Oh dear, looks like another lib one, Ann Sudmalis, is a British citizen by descent :
Gilmore MP embroiled in dual citizenship scandal | South Coast Register
She currently 'looking to clarify' .... ahem.
Gilmore MP embroiled in dual citizenship scandal | South Coast Register
She currently 'looking to clarify' .... ahem.
76 coalition MPs, sitting on the bench
76 coalition MPs, sitting on the bench
And if one coalition MP should accidentally fall.
There'll be not enough coalition MPs, sitting on the bench...
76 coalition MPs, sitting on the bench
And if one coalition MP should accidentally fall.
There'll be not enough coalition MPs, sitting on the bench...
#101
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
Being "entitled" to citizenship does not make one a citizen. You cannot renounce an entitlement as the Sydney Morning Herald suggested. That is absurd.
She is either a citizen or not; being eligible to become a citizen, but not taking that up, means she is not a citizen.
If she is a citizen she should resign.
She is either a citizen or not; being eligible to become a citizen, but not taking that up, means she is not a citizen.
If she is a citizen she should resign.
#102
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
PS - If we start declaring as ineligible anyone who could theoretically apply for foreign citizenship, that would also knock out Penny Wong as well. Oh the irony!
#103
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
Kiwis consider all Aussies to be their citizens so imo as their [NZ] legislation stands at the moment every prospective member of parliament would need to renounce citizenship of NZ in order to be eligible to stand, you only need look at their wording.
This is inaccurate. Australian Citizens in New Zealand automatically get PR but are not considered New Zealand Citizens and do not have the same rights and privileges as New Zealand Citizens.
The rest of your point I understand. I also heard someone explain that New Zealand reinstated a citizenship law a few years ago that retroactively made Barnaby an NZ citizen, but he may not have been one in 2005 when he investigated it.
This is inaccurate. Australian Citizens in New Zealand automatically get PR but are not considered New Zealand Citizens and do not have the same rights and privileges as New Zealand Citizens.
The rest of your point I understand. I also heard someone explain that New Zealand reinstated a citizenship law a few years ago that retroactively made Barnaby an NZ citizen, but he may not have been one in 2005 when he investigated it.
#104
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Dual Citizenship A Barrier ?
Oh dear, looks like another lib one, Ann Sudmalis, is a British citizen by descent :
Gilmore MP embroiled in dual citizenship scandal | South Coast Register
She currently 'looking to clarify' .... ahem.
Gilmore MP embroiled in dual citizenship scandal | South Coast Register
She currently 'looking to clarify' .... ahem.
76 coalition MPs, sitting on the bench
76 coalition MPs, sitting on the bench
And if one coalition MP should accidentally fall.
There'll be not enough coalition MPs, sitting on the bench...
76 coalition MPs, sitting on the bench
And if one coalition MP should accidentally fall.
There'll be not enough coalition MPs, sitting on the bench...
It must be said, its a shame you would rather a country run by a team of dirty tactics. Those colluding with a foreign political party, union scandals, mediscare. Shame on you.