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Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Old Jul 10th 2016, 12:42 am
  #811  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Beoz
The mentality you describe above is old skool. Time to move into the new world.
The mentality I describe is real world unfortunately, particularly in Australia.

Your world only exists when finding a replacement is hard. When you can advertise for a replacement on a salary 20% lower than you were paying, and find takers, then that's what happens.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 1:17 am
  #812  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by GarryP
The mentality I describe is real world unfortunately, particularly in Australia.

Your world only exists when finding a replacement is hard. When you can advertise for a replacement on a salary 20% lower than you were paying, and find takers, then that's what happens.
The question is, who holds the cards here. The answer certainly isn't unions.

The corps, make things, sell things, service things, distribute things, in turn make money, money distributes through out the economy, employing people, who are taxed, providing for us all.

Unions do none of the above and therefore become a burden for the creators. Unions are the destroyers.

Unions could become part of the creation process but while they are still fixated on destruction, the old skool mentality, they continue to waste away.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 2:09 am
  #813  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Beoz
The corps, make things, sell things, service things, distribute things, in turn make money, money distributes through out the economy, employing people, who are taxed, providing for us all.
That's 'trickledown', only with 'corps' replacing 'rich'. It's been conclusively shown not to work - because the objectives of the corps/rich and society are not coherent, or even particularly compatible.

That idea stops the economy and society working.

What's needed is a much more holistic model, where society comes first and 'corps/rich' support that; not work against it. You can't have society getting the dregs left over after another zero has been added to a bank balance - it doesn't work.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 2:22 am
  #814  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by GarryP
That's 'trickledown', only with 'corps' replacing 'rich'. It's been conclusively shown not to work - because the objectives of the corps/rich and society are not coherent, or even particularly compatible.

That idea stops the economy and society working.

What's needed is a much more holistic model, where society comes first and 'corps/rich' support that; not work against it. You can't have society getting the dregs left over after another zero has been added to a bank balance - it doesn't work.
Do you want communism? Yeah no thanks.

Problem with your ideals is that the private sector hold the cards. If you want to drive that ideal in Australia the corps will just bugger off.

Might as well jump on board rather than resisting because it aint gonna happen.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 2:34 am
  #815  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Beoz
Do you want communism? Yeah no thanks.

Problem with your ideals is that the private sector hold the cards. If you want to drive that ideal in Australia the corps will just bugger off.

Might as well jump on board rather than resisting because it aint gonna happen.
Well at least you've given up trying to say it's right and a sustainable option.

Now you're just throwing up you hands and saying "but what can you do?"

Thing is, it's not sustainable, eventually, via one mechanism or another, your world ends.

Better to find an agreed, legal route to accommodation of business and society such that society comes first - because the alternative is violent and destructive. We want to avoid large numbers of deaths.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 2:50 am
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by GarryP
Well at least you've given up trying to say it's right and a sustainable option.

Now you're just throwing up you hands and saying "but what can you do?"

Thing is, it's not sustainable, eventually, via one mechanism or another, your world ends.

Better to find an agreed, legal route to accommodation of business and society such that society comes first - because the alternative is violent and destructive. We want to avoid large numbers of deaths.
You mean capitilism? So you think capitalism will die?

That's funny. The only thing I've seen die is Communism.

Same with Automation. We've only ever seen that increase jobs and make the world a better place for all.

Remember the old days before Automation? The gulf between rich and poor was far greater. The rich never provided for the poor. And this was also the case in the Soviet Union. Automation and capitalism has helped the poor obtain a better mortality rate, and access to all the necessities in life.

Why would you want yo sacrifice that?
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 4:19 am
  #817  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Beoz
Do you want communism? Yeah no thanks.

Problem with your ideals is that the private sector hold the cards. If you want to drive that ideal in Australia the corps will just bugger off.

Might as well jump on board rather than resisting because it aint gonna happen.
No want as most people, not inflicted with the dreaded flawed neo liberal economic ideology, a fair go on all sides.


No the private sector while becoming ever more influential and dictating to government will still remain and toe the line if government implements it.


Take a look at European practices no need to look at communism, but business will be regardless where there is a buck to be made.


It's called responsible government not pure managers of an economy. As for business it hardly remains in the country out of charity. It is here for a reason. If they can outsource to cheaper lands and exploitative work force situations, they most surely will.


As such the dreaded Morrison $48 billion tax cuts wish to business does nothing but further deprive Australians of wealth which will results in further cuts to the vulnerable and generally worsening conditions in the nation.


Business tax cuts are not needed, and less wanted by the majority that have made that clear with recent voting outcomes.


Cuts to corporates does little more than reward foreign shareholders and flow of income to the individual organization.
Trickle down economic thought has been proven to be a dozy.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 4:32 am
  #818  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Beoz
You mean capitilism? So you think capitalism will die?

That's funny. The only thing I've seen die is Communism.

Same with Automation. We've only ever seen that increase jobs and make the world a better place for all.

Remember the old days before Automation? The gulf between rich and poor was far greater. The rich never provided for the poor. And this was also the case in the Soviet Union. Automation and capitalism has helped the poor obtain a better mortality rate, and access to all the necessities in life.

Why would you want yo sacrifice that?
What is known as neo liberal economic policy, a form of pure capitalism if you like, has seen a retreat over the past thirty years in narrowing the gap, to quite the contrary in rewarding certain sections of society at the cost of the majority, whom in more recent years have seen a regression in standards as the world becomes ever more unequal.
So quite the opposite to what you would like to infer. Hence the populist risings across the world against the one per centers and injustice in general.


Those of means certainly did help to provide for the poor in the way of taxes. The social security net was a trade off to address the natural inequality brought about by the capitalistic system.
That trade off is now seriously under question. The demise of communism resulted in the right side of this ideology gaining ground rapidly and gloating in celebration and practising greed to abnormal levels and arriving at a situation we now find ourselves in.


The corporates will not have their way and change is in the air. We need a new broom to sweep away decaying remains.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 4:39 am
  #819  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by GarryP
The mentality I describe is real world unfortunately, particularly in Australia.

Your world only exists when finding a replacement is hard. When you can advertise for a replacement on a salary 20% lower than you were paying, and find takers, then that's what happens.


Very much so. There is quite an amount of restructuring en train with lower wages on offer for near similar tasks. All to get around Fair Work Australia and legal requirements. Rather happy to see the Union keeping a flawed thinking CEO, looking for board approval, told in no uncertain terms that the structure in place was illegal and couldn't be undertaken, just the other week. All those going got pro rata Long Service Leave as well. Something overlooked in initial payout.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 4:42 am
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Beoz
Interestingly I was having a chat with a fella who was in management in a factory. He was telling me that he votes LNP and hates unions, but is the union rep so he maintains the respect of his staff.

What a weird world.
Definitely the right man for the job then. No doubt first in line defending workers interests. Talk about a conflict of interest.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 7:41 am
  #821  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Beoz
You see. That's 3 of us then. Even the Tennis Ace agrees but still likes to argue
Don't quote me as agreeing with you as I didn't on that point.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 10:18 am
  #822  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by the troubadour
What is known as neo liberal economic policy, a form of pure capitalism if you like, has seen a retreat over the past thirty years in narrowing the gap, to quite the contrary in rewarding certain sections of society at the cost of the majority, whom in more recent years have seen a regression in standards as the world becomes ever more unequal.
So quite the opposite to what you would like to infer. Hence the populist risings across the world against the one per centers and injustice in general.


Those of means certainly did help to provide for the poor in the way of taxes. The social security net was a trade off to address the natural inequality brought about by the capitalistic system.
That trade off is now seriously under question. The demise of communism resulted in the right side of this ideology gaining ground rapidly and gloating in celebration and practising greed to abnormal levels and arriving at a situation we now find ourselves in.


The corporates will not have their way and change is in the air. We need a new broom to sweep away decaying remains.
Wow. What a contradiction. In post 817 you said "No the private sector while becoming ever more influential and dictating to government will still remain and toe the line if government implements it."

Then you said .... in bold
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 10:36 am
  #823  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Bye bye Liberal Government.

Yep ..... BS finally concedes defeat.

Thank goodness for that.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 11:31 am
  #824  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Beoz
Bye bye Liberal Government.

Yep ..... BS finally concedes defeat.

Thank goodness for that.
And now for the fun sweepstake, what can Turnbull actually get passed into law?
Union attacking via ABCC, and the reason for the DD = Nope
$50bn in corporate tax cuts = Nope
Medicare cuts and privatisation = Nope
Plebiscite = Nope
It's actually difficult to see what he's going to be able to sneak past Labor & the Greens, the Senate, and his own far right of the party. Maybe something in the 'jobs'n'growth' arena - but since he's actually got no policies there to suggest ...

Looks like he maybe able to get electronic voting, Shorten pushed for that in his message to Turnbull.
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Old Jul 10th 2016, 11:44 am
  #825  
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by GarryP
And now for the fun sweepstake, what can Turnbull actually get passed into law?
Union attacking via ABCC, and the reason for the DD = Nope
$50bn in corporate tax cuts = Nope
Medicare cuts and privatisation = Nope
Plebiscite = Nope
It's actually difficult to see what he's going to be able to sneak past Labor & the Greens, the Senate, and his own far right of the party. Maybe something in the 'jobs'n'growth' arena - but since he's actually got no policies there to suggest ...

Looks like he maybe able to get electronic voting, Shorten pushed for that in his message to Turnbull.
I agree with you on Medicare. Dreeeaaammmmer.

I wonder if they would get their superannuation attack on the rich through.

I see you conveniently forgot to mention that.
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