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Old Apr 18th 2016, 11:27 am   #16
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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But that starts with 'western socialists by their very nature, hate their country'. If there was a Labour government in power in the UK or Australia and the Conservatives/Liberal Coalition campaigned to win power at an election you'd also say the right wing hate their country? i.e. if someone has different values to you they don't automatically 'hate their country' (except in your mind perhaps). Hope that helps.
Socialists hate the the west - always have, always will

Shorten, Corbyn, Blair, Brown, Gillard, Rudd, Wilson, Hollande, Zuma, Trudeau all fit the bill

It is very difficult to be a socialist and a patriot. It happens sometimes but is very rare

Nature of the beast
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 11:48 am   #17
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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Socialists hate the the west - always have, always will

Shorten, Corbyn, Blair, Brown, Gillard, Rudd, Wilson, Hollande, Zuma, Trudeau all fit the bill

It is very difficult to be a socialist and a patriot. It happens sometimes but is very rare

Nature of the beast
You can repeat this ad infinitum, it still makes little or no sense to anyone else.
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 12:14 pm   #18
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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Socialists hate the the west - always have, always will

Shorten, Corbyn, Blair, Brown, Gillard, Rudd, Wilson, Hollande, Zuma, Trudeau all fit the bill

It is very difficult to be a socialist and a patriot. It happens sometimes but is very rare

Nature of the beast
When asked to explain why they 'hate the west' you reply always have, always will and it is very difficult to be a socialist and a patriot which are both pure figments of your own imagination.
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 12:36 pm   #19
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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You can repeat this ad infinitum, it still makes little or no sense to anyone else.
It makes perfect sense but believe what you want to believe. No skin off my nose

Everyone's a winner
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 12:37 pm   #20
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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Originally Posted by OzTennis View Post
When asked to explain why they 'hate the west' you reply always have, always will and it is very difficult to be a socialist and a patriot which are both pure figments of your own imagination.
It makes perfect sense but believe what you want to believe. No skin off my nose

Everyone's a winner

PS So true I even posted it twice!
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 1:04 pm   #21
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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Originally Posted by OzTennis View Post
But that starts with 'western socialists by their very nature, hate their country'. If there was a Labour government in power in the UK or Australia and the Conservatives/Liberal Coalition campaigned to win power at an election you'd also say the right wing hate their country? i.e. if someone has different values to you they don't automatically 'hate their country' (except in your mind perhaps). Hope that helps.
I'm not exactly sure how you could point out someone who "hated their country"?

I guess an emigrant might be a good pointer?

Otherwise it would be someone who placed something else above their country, surely? Connected with traitors, they would need to chase after something else.

So, a religious zealot who looked to rome for instructions could be said to potentially hate their country. Similarly someone who placed money above their country would happily sell it out for more gold.

And if the country is the people, someone who placed money over people would hate their country, surely?

I think you can see where I'm going with that logical progression....
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 1:57 pm   #22
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
It makes perfect sense but believe what you want to believe. No skin off my nose

Everyone's a winner


The most advanced countries in the world currently are all socialist....Democratic Socialist that is... and that's your Scandinavians. Call a Dane a Swede and vice versa and you'll find out how much they love their individual countries. If anything Australia is aspring to become as forward thinking as them... It's on the right track.

As for independant thinking and a sense of self re the union movement, look up the Eureka Stockade, which is the birth place of unionism in Australia..in Victoria of course.

That's what this flag is all about... As seen above all CFMEU sites across the country.



Not sure this will help as you cant help those with closed minds. But I've tried.

The spirit of Eureka will win this election for the workers.
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 10:20 pm   #23
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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Originally Posted by ozzieeagle View Post
The most advanced countries in the world currently are all socialist....Democratic Socialist that is... and that's your Scandinavians. Call a Dane a Swede and vice versa and you'll find out how much they love their individual countries. If anything Australia is aspring to become as forward thinking as them... It's on the right track.

As for independant thinking and a sense of self re the union movement, look up the Eureka Stockade, which is the birth place of unionism in Australia..in Victoria of course.

That's what this flag is all about... As seen above all CFMEU sites across the country.

http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/im...0534749246.jpg

Not sure this will help as you cant help those with closed minds. But I've tried.

The spirit of Eureka will win this election for the workers.
Sweden's unions are a little different to yours. They role with the times, activity encourage free trade and globalisation. They even support unemployment insurance. Their philosophy works with government, rather than against. People want to join as opposed to here where the union bullies you to join with little in it for your annual fee.

The Abbott backed long maternity leave was a bit Scandinavian don't you think? Rather than pressuring well earning, high tax paying women back into the workforce before they are ready, most women don't last, or they take a mediocre position to juggle work and child. But your mates in the ALP killed that off.

Minimum wage, the unions in Scandy sort that out, but there's no need for it here any more. The government have the highest minimum in the world under control.

Workers rights - under control and governed by your governmemt.

So really Ozzie, by hanging onto this Australian union thing you are just asking the union to keep the government in check, rather than asking your union to proactively do stuff.

See the difference? You are flogging a dying horse, an old model, if they don't re-invent they will die.

By voting labour you are asking for a dying union mediocrity - not much to offer there. You are better of throwing your weight behind the greens if you like the social democrate thing.
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 10:38 pm   #24
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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..... It's going to be the dirtiest campaign in Aus electoral history. ....
You're all hack amateurs compared to what is going on over here at the moment!
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 5:56 am   #25
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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Originally Posted by ozzieeagle View Post
The most advanced countries in the world currently are all socialist....Democratic Socialist that is... and that's your Scandinavians. Call a Dane a Swede and vice versa and you'll find out how much they love their individual countries. If anything Australia is aspring to become as forward thinking as them... It's on the right track.

As for independant thinking and a sense of self re the union movement, look up the Eureka Stockade, which is the birth place of unionism in Australia..in Victoria of course.

That's what this flag is all about... As seen above all CFMEU sites across the country.

http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/im...0534749246.jpg

Not sure this will help as you cant help those with closed minds. But I've tried.

The spirit of Eureka will win this election for the workers.
Australia is wealthier and healthier than all Scandy countries apart from Norway (our only peer in Europe). They have levels of taxation that most Australians of all political persuasions would find unacceptable - the Scandy mindset is very different from the individualist outlook of Anglo-celtic countries - their people accept levels of government control in their lives that many here would not be happy with. But ultimately what are you railing against? We have the highest minimum wage in the world, our workers are pampered and have extensive legal protection, more than half of workers take more out of the taxation system than they put in and the same amount rely on governments for all or the majority of their income. Unions cause unnecessary unemployment but offer a great gig if you can get in on the gravy train. By all international standards, Australia is one of the fairest, wealthiest countries on the planet

The Eureka flag comes from a time when there was genuine social injustice in Australia - a time long gone. The CFMEU has hijacked the flag for its own ends - ends that are basically criminal

We are never going to agree on this but if you think that Australia is ready for the CFMEU to rule Australia through its proxy, Bill Shorten, then I think that you are deluding yourself. Yes, the CFMEU owns the Victorian government (and to a lesser extent, Qld's) but in NSW and WA they do not. The vast majority of people know that the current union movement destroys jobs and wealth and I reckon they would not be happy with them controlling the country. Turnbull's got this one
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 7:06 am   #26
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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Australia is wealthier and healthier than all Scandy countries apart from Norway (our only peer in Europe). They have levels of taxation that most Australians of all political persuasions would find unacceptable - the Scandy mindset is very different from the individualist outlook of Anglo-celtic countries - their people accept levels of government control in their lives that many here would not be happy with. But ultimately what are you railing against? We have the highest minimum wage in the world, our workers are pampered and have extensive legal protection, more than half of workers take more out of the taxation system than they put in and the same amount rely on governments for all or the majority of their income. Unions cause unnecessary unemployment but offer a great gig if you can get in on the gravy train. By all international standards, Australia is one of the fairest, wealthiest countries on the planet
I have to admit, I'm a little unsure what the social democrats are asking for as well. Tax the tax dodgers ...... OK I can run with that like most centralist and right wingers can.

But I agree with you, from poor to wealthy, Australia has probably one of the giving systems in the world.

Which is why I cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would want to hand over government to a dying party who's only real agenda is unionism ...... today we simply do not need it.

This is going to go the way of the UK election, and I suspect the Greens are going to pick up a fair share of the Labour ashes.
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 1:28 pm   #27
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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You're all hack amateurs compared to what is going on over here at the moment!
Indeed. The merkins are star performers when it comes to crassness
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Old Apr 21st 2016, 8:40 am   #28
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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By voting labour you are asking for a dying union mediocrity - not much to offer there. You are better of throwing your weight behind the greens if you like the social democrate thing.
The Labour big squeeze is on.

http://m.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/election-2016-labors-looming-electoral-threat-from-young-people-in-one-chart-20160421-gobrv4.html
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Old Apr 24th 2016, 5:57 am   #29
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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Ah the me me me rises its ugly head.

You can either sit on the bench and do nothing or deal with the issues. I rather a government that deals with the issues. If its to their fall down then so be it.

You already have your rights in place. Same as every other worker in the country. Why are you so special?
I'd prefer a government like that as well. A government prepared to tackle the corporates and go after the tax rightly due, a government prepared to tackle the housing crisis in Australia, a government not afraid to bring the top end of town into line.


A government that rules for all in other words and not a few.
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Old Apr 24th 2016, 6:10 am   #30
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Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

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Sweden's unions are a little different to yours. They role with the times, activity encourage free trade and globalisation. They even support unemployment insurance. Their philosophy works with government, rather than against. People want to join as opposed to here where the union bullies you to join with little in it for your annual fee.

The Abbott backed long maternity leave was a bit Scandinavian don't you think? Rather than pressuring well earning, high tax paying women back into the workforce before they are ready, most women don't last, or they take a mediocre position to juggle work and child. But your mates in the ALP killed that off.

Minimum wage, the unions in Scandy sort that out, but there's no need for it here any more. The government have the highest minimum in the world under control.

Workers rights - under control and governed by your governmemt.

So really Ozzie, by hanging onto this Australian union thing you are just asking the union to keep the government in check, rather than asking your union to proactively do stuff.

See the difference? You are flogging a dying horse, an old model, if they don't re-invent they will die.

By voting labour you are asking for a dying union mediocrity - not much to offer there. You are better of throwing your weight behind the greens if you like the social democrate thing.
Contrary to what you suggest. The Neo Liberal model direction of running an economy is what has been proven to be ineffective both as an economic model and seriously a danger to the mental health of workers.


Without the unions and umpires (both have limitations) in position to at least oversee that legal requirements are conducted by employers in treatment of their employees we'd likely on the evidence witnessed over recent years, be living in a even nastier work place environment with an excessive numbers of psychopaths in positions to cause damage riding rough shot over peoples lives.
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