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Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Old May 27th 2016, 12:14 pm
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by GarryP
Who said anything about communism? ....
That is what you're describing, you just apparently don't recognise it.
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Old May 27th 2016, 12:44 pm
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by Pulaski
That is what you're describing, you just apparently don't recognise it.
Nope, communism is something VERY different.

Governments actually doing something isn't a bad thing. Governments not doing what they are supposed to is the problem. Neither are communism.
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Old May 27th 2016, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by GarryP
Nope, communism is something VERY different.

Governments actually doing something isn't a bad thing. Governments not doing what they are supposed to is the problem. Neither are communism.
Authoritarian forced-equality and a command economy, which is what you appear to be describing, is what real-world communist regimes inevitably resort to.
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Old May 27th 2016, 11:17 pm
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts
There is no point wasting your time and energy worrying about things that you cannot change. Put your energy into what you can do and what you can change and you might not be so angry all the time.
Great advice. Very hard when its all about me me me and blame blame blame.
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Old May 27th 2016, 11:22 pm
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Authoritarian forced-equality and a command economy, which is what you appear to be describing, is what real-world communist regimes inevitably resort to.
So in other words, it's not communism, it's an organisational pattern that communist states might use (and capitalist too, if you look inside the company).

And what I described is not what you described. I said that the government HAD to get involved and make certain things happen because the market was obviously, hopelessly, incapable of doing so.

It's one of the big lies of the 20th century; that the market can solve all problems and is applicable in all instances. A moment's thought should tell you that ain't gonna be true quite a lot of the time. That's why you have governments.
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Old May 28th 2016, 12:12 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by GarryP

Oh, and before Beoz comes along with a 'new jobs will spontaneously appear', have people been noting the two automation stories that have been floating around in recent days?

Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots' - BBC News
Ex-McDonald's CEO suggests replacing employees with robots amid protests | Business | The Guardian

60,000 here, 100s of thousands there, and this is just the beginning. That's why it's on my list of "needs to be addressed NOW". There's at least 1M extra unemployed in Australia coming round the corner of the next next parliament.
Here comes Beoz.

Firstly. McDonalds. Well they have been automating for years. They no longer flip the burgers, they Microwave them. Automation is just a way of McDonalds improving its declining profits which are declining as their brand is unable to detach itself from the fatty stigma.

Interestingly I popped into a McD's on the M1 a few weeks back. There have automated ordering machines and still 30 or so low paid workers behind the counter. If you can place a McD's on a motorway or in an entertainment precint ... happy days. Anywhere else you are no longer welcome. Nothing to do with automation. Its all about branding.

Now as for your 60,000 workers being replaced by robots, lets look at where these 60,000 were 20 years ago. They were in the fields picking rice. So in 20 years 60,000 moved from farming to factories build stuff for iphones, where to next. They go and work for the companies building the robots. And they may not be building robots, they may be doing R&D, marketing, design. Its the natural shift that's been occuring for centuries. It keeps going.

Like the factories that emerged in the last 20 years to satisfy our hunger for electronic mobility, more stuff will appear and boom. And stuff dies out. It just does.

Last edited by Beoz; May 28th 2016 at 12:15 am.
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Old May 28th 2016, 12:23 am
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by GarryP
Oh, and before Beoz comes along with a 'new jobs will spontaneously appear
Wrap your pessimism around this one.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/27/9038829/automation-myth
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Old May 28th 2016, 12:45 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by Beoz
Here comes Beoz.


Originally Posted by Beoz
Firstly. McDonalds. Well they have been automating for years. They no longer flip the burgers, they Microwave them. Automation is just a way of McDonalds improving its declining profits which are declining as their brand is unable to detach itself from the fatty stigma.
Missing the point again. It's not just them, its ANY fast food place - and as you say, they will take the route of reducing costs at every turn. Pretty soon they will have someone to smile, and someone to tend the machines. Everything else, the order taking, the money taking, the 'cooking', the order making, the delivery to the customer - will be done by machine.

Originally Posted by Beoz
Now as for your 60,000 workers being replaced by robots, lets look at where these 60,000 were 20 years ago. They were in the fields picking rice. So in 20 years 60,000 moved from farming to factories build stuff for iphones, where to next. They go and work for the companies building the robots. And they may not be building robots, they may be doing R&D, marketing, design. Its the natural shift that's been occuring for centuries. It keeps going.
So you think rice pickers become R&D, marketing, design?

The whole point is less people, because if there weren't less people, it wouldn't make economic sense. And the secondary point is just how fast this is going to happen. It will overtake an industry in a year or two - far too fast for anyone to adapt.
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Old May 28th 2016, 1:47 am
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by GarryP
http://ukulelehunt.com/wp-content/up...07/10/pob2.jpg

Missing the point again. It's not just them, its ANY fast food place - and as you say, they will take the route of reducing costs at every turn. Pretty soon they will have someone to smile, and someone to tend the machines. Everything else, the order taking, the money taking, the 'cooking', the order making, the delivery to the customer - will be done by machine.

So you think rice pickers become R&D, marketing, design?

The whole point is less people, because if there weren't less people, it wouldn't make economic sense. And the secondary point is just how fast this is going to happen. It will overtake an industry in a year or two - far too fast for anyone to adapt.
The myth about mechanization eliminating jobs is as old as the industrial revolution, which in the UK is about 300 years. It wasn't true then, it hasn't been true at any point since then, with the possible exceptions of a few short-term transition periods e.g. mid 70's-mid 80's in the UK after the demise of shipbuilding, heavy industry, and mining, and I see absolutely NO reason to believe that the myth has suddenly become reality.
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Old May 28th 2016, 3:13 am
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by GarryP
http://ukulelehunt.com/wp-content/up...07/10/pob2.jpg

Missing the point again. It's not just them, its ANY fast food place - and as you say, they will take the route of reducing costs at every turn. Pretty soon they will have someone to smile, and someone to tend the machines. Everything else, the order taking, the money taking, the 'cooking', the order making, the delivery to the customer - will be done by machine.



So you think rice pickers become R&D, marketing, design?

The whole point is less people, because if there weren't less people, it wouldn't make economic sense. And the secondary point is just how fast this is going to happen. It will overtake an industry in a year or two - far too fast for anyone to adapt.
I think you are missing the point. The rice farmers do become workers in the cities. The children of those rice farmers become R&D's, marketers, designers. They also become the suppliers of information, materials, and other bits to the new robotic companies. Stuff evolves.

Those factories in that article didn't exist 20 years ago. Nor did Google, nor did the iphone. You see how a company in the past 20 years (may have been 10 years) has grown to employ 100,000 most likely people from rural areas. Then it shrinks. That's what stuff does.

Read this then. There is a Labor shortage in China.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/767495a0-e99b-11e4-b863-00144feab7de.html#axzz49uphyLNu
You see how this stuff evolves?

My first job in tech 20 odd years ago doesn't exist today. We evolve .... that's what history has done and will continue to do.

The tech revolution is not a new thing. Its been happening for centuries.
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Old May 28th 2016, 3:21 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by Pulaski
The myth about mechanization eliminating jobs is as old as the industrial revolution, which in the UK is about 300 years. It wasn't true then, it hasn't been true at any point since then, with the possible exceptions of a few short-term transition periods e.g. mid 70's-mid 80's in the UK after the demise of shipbuilding, heavy industry, and mining, and I see absolutely NO reason to believe that the myth has suddenly become reality.
Spot on

The Luddite fallacy is as relevant today as it was in 1811

Economics 101
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Old May 28th 2016, 3:48 am
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Interestingly Foxconn who over time will look to reduce its workforce but 60,000 by introducing more robotics had about 50,000 employees in 2003. Ten years later it had 1.4 million employees.

If they reduce by 60,000 over time (over time because we humans don't adapt to tech over night) I make that about a 1.29 million job creation number all due to technology and automation.

Yep the automation job loss myth. Socialists like Obama love it.
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Old May 28th 2016, 7:31 am
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by Pulaski
The myth about mechanization eliminating jobs is as old as the industrial revolution, which in the UK is about 300 years. It wasn't true then, it hasn't been true at any point since then, with the possible exceptions of a few short-term transition periods e.g. mid 70's-mid 80's in the UK after the demise of shipbuilding, heavy industry, and mining, and I see absolutely NO reason to believe that the myth has suddenly become reality.
It is far too simple to view it as mechanisation destroys jobs, myth or reality. There is another factor in play which is the much higher percentage of women working compared to the past - i.e. mechanisation, automation and technology has meant that women can participate in work more (along with changing social attitudes).

If you like, mechanisation tends to eliminate jobs for men and creates jobs for women and also leads to more part time and short term contract work as well. e.g. in the UK about 45% of women of working age worked in the early 1950's, now over 70% of women of working age work.

Another factor at work is the change in the structure of the work force as development ensues - there is a switch from highly mechanised primary and secondary industries to tertiary/service employment. We all know that the advanced economies of the world have 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 workers providing services and not producing goods.

Last edited by OzTennis; May 28th 2016 at 7:34 am.
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Old May 28th 2016, 8:30 am
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Originally Posted by Amazulu
21st century Venezuela is a graphic example of the utter destructiveness of socialism. Unfortunately, many refuse to heed the lessons that history teaches us

Well not really. An example of a nation where a few have's cannot expect a blissful life on the back of the vast majority being have nots.


So called socialism with a Venezuelan slant rode in on the backs of massive inequality, not the reverse.


Indeed history shows that the tolerance towards growing inequality will ignite and lead a nation down a spiralling path of decline.
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Old May 28th 2016, 8:46 am
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Default Re: Bank Bid To Maintain Housing Ponzi

Back on subject. Talk about Coalition credibility or lack of. While obvious they mustn't put their real estate backers off side, Finance Minister Cormann's stance in supporting the lobby and mouth piece of the Real Estate Industry, the REIA, in supporting a rise of 10% under Labor's policy of restructuring NG to new properties somewhat takes the cake.


One can perhaps ask whenever has the REIA, ever voiced concern for renters? Abolishing Howards ridiculous Capital Gains discount which initially largely created the crisis we now have can only be a good thing. Surely?
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