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Old Dec 7th 2017, 9:18 pm   #91
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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For example, Qantas don't do Bali
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qf43
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Old Dec 7th 2017, 10:17 pm   #92
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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Awesome. I have had to fly Jetstar on my last 2 visits.

Interesting how Qantas used to ignore the Gold Coast and Bali routes and now they are putting the pressure on the so called "low cost" airlines with location and cost.

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Old Dec 7th 2017, 11:36 pm   #93
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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No they say we are different to the world

Our customers love paying higher prices for sub standard quality.
Every country tries to say "I'm special, I'm different". Yet the experience with globalisation is that countries are getting more and more the same. That goes double for australia, which never really had much of it's own culture in the first place.

As barriers come down we hit more and more a 'global' marketplace where there are a few winners, who win big. Same is true in media, where the future belongs to the global entities - first in movies, and now TV. And once again aussie TV tries to say "we're different" when they actually have to accept they are just worse.

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and now they are putting the pressure on the so called "low cost" airlines with location and cost.
So, you mean they are understanding that they have to match their 'low cost' subsidiaries in cost and breadth if they are to survive? Whodathunk?
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Old Dec 8th 2017, 2:57 am   #94
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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So, you mean they are understanding that they have to match their 'low cost' subsidiaries in cost and breadth if they are to survive? Whodathunk?
More to the point you now understand that the Australian retailer is not going to die.

About time.
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Old Dec 8th 2017, 8:33 am   #95
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

Yes, Amazon have inexplicably made a pig's ear of their Australian entry - and normally first impressions can have a lasting effect. But certain brands can, and do, get away with this kind of shit - and I reckon Amazon is one of those brands. Look at the way Apple continually serves up steaming hot shit sandwiches for their loyal customers, yet these customers gulp them down, burp and ask for more. Some brands are too big and too slick to fail

Amazon AU in 2018 will be a very different beast from Amazon AU in 2017
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Old Dec 8th 2017, 8:52 am   #96
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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More to the point you now understand that the Australian retailer is not going to die.

About time.
So, you got from

Quote:
you mean they are understanding that they have to match their 'low cost' subsidiaries in cost and breadth if they are to survive
to australian bricks'n'mortar' retail surviving?

The point, which is the point we came in on, is that costs have to be cut to remain competitive, and since retail space and staff are expensive fixed costs, that model has to change (via automation) if an entity is to be able to match the cost base of it's online competitors. If Australian retail can't do that (and it looks certain they can't) then they can be undercut, and since cost is the prime motivator, will eventually go out of business.

Which is what I said originally, and you disputed.

You're trolling again, Beoz; you are aren't quite this dumb.
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Old Dec 8th 2017, 9:04 am   #97
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
So, you got from



to australian bricks'n'mortar' retail surviving?

The point, which is the point we came in on, is that costs have to be cut to remain competitive, and since retail space and staff are expensive fixed costs, that model has to change (via automation) if an entity is to be able to match the cost base of it's online competitors. If Australian retail can't do that (and it looks certain they can't) then they can be undercut, and since cost is the prime motivator, will eventually go out of business.

Which is what I said originally, and you disputed.

You're trolling again, Beoz; you are aren't quite this dumb.
Calling someone a troll is no excuse for your own incompetence.

We've been down this route already. Bricks and Mortar offer a different upsell, a different experience, a different set of costs.

As has been explained to you Walmart now are offering a lower price if you take from the store.

People are cheap and provide value. Retail realises this - hence even Amazons move into Bricks and Mortar.

Saving money is lower priority than making money. Saving money is finite. Making money is infinite.

Which part of all this don't you understand?

Maybe Amazon and Gerry Harvey can explain it to you. They are all converging on the same path.

Last edited by Beoz; Dec 8th 2017 at 9:08 am.
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Old Dec 8th 2017, 9:55 am   #98
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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Calling someone a troll is no excuse for your own incompetence.

We've been down this route already. Bricks and Mortar offer a different upsell, a different experience, a different set of costs.

As has been explained to you Walmart now are offering a lower price if you take from the store.

People are cheap and provide value. Retail realises this - hence even Amazons move into Bricks and Mortar.

Saving money is lower priority than making money. Saving money is finite. Making money is infinite.

Which part of all this don't you understand?

Maybe Amazon and Gerry Harvey can explain it to you. They are all converging on the same path.
In terms of offering bricks and mortar cannot survive on pricing and a cost base where area and unit rate is for example:

Bricks and mortar 10,000 sqm and $1500 sqm
Online 1,000 sqm and $150 sqm

Omni channel is not straight forward to what Amazon/Wholefoods or Walmart/Online make it appear. Leveraging off bricks & mortar assets will not achieve what they are seeking.

Customer experience is about the customer not about legacy infrastructure.

Customer experience is not about using demotivated staff

Australian retail relies on ignorance of the masses

When cost, convenience, quality offering line up and you do so on a sustainable model, the competition who did not keep up will drop off.

In store experience negates the other experiences to get there.

The masses are vengeful and social media escalates this.

Social and entertainment is different from shopping. Recent mall activity shows this expressly where the food court is packed as to the movie quarter, where the rest of the malls are empty.
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Old Dec 8th 2017, 10:53 am   #99
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuck in Auckland View Post
In terms of offering bricks and mortar cannot survive on pricing and a cost base where area and unit rate is for example:

Bricks and mortar 10,000 sqm and $1500 sqm
Online 1,000 sqm and $150 sqm

Omni channel is not straight forward to what Amazon/Wholefoods or Walmart/Online make it appear. Leveraging off bricks & mortar assets will not achieve what they are seeking.

Customer experience is about the customer not about legacy infrastructure.

Customer experience is not about using demotivated staff

Australian retail relies on ignorance of the masses

When cost, convenience, quality offering line up and you do so on a sustainable model, the competition who did not keep up will drop off.

In store experience negates the other experiences to get there.

The masses are vengeful and social media escalates this.

Social and entertainment is different from shopping. Recent mall activity shows this expressly where the food court is packed as to the movie quarter, where the rest of the malls are empty.
Of course (assuming you are talking North America). The movie quarter is booming.

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Old Dec 8th 2017, 10:57 am   #100
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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Originally Posted by Stuck in Auckland View Post
Social and entertainment is different from shopping. Recent mall activity shows this expressly where the food court is packed as to the movie quarter, where the rest of the malls are empty.
Nicely put sir, perceptive.

Let me expand. I think people will wear about a 10% margin for great service and experience. Past this point they might visit the bricks'n'mortar, but they will eventually buy online. That's particularly true of Amazon, who offer pretty good service themselves.

I've been looking for the gap, between where Amazon are, and where retail could be. It exists in that 10%. And that doesn't encompass expensive floorspace, nor does it encompass spotty little oiks masquerading as customer service.

If I wanted to buy a new mobile phone, and assuming I didn't know anything, I wouldn't be going to a retail space to get sold at. And I wouldn't necessarily be going to Amazon either, who are value neutral.

Ever noticed, if there is a piece of media where the hero is 'tooling up', the type of place the hero goes to - the vibe of the place? I think that tells something about what somewhere that doesn't race to the bottom on price looks like - what that 10% of potential value entails. It isn't value neutral, it has an attitude, and above all it focuses on the service that can be delivered, not the brand. If anything, it is .... hostile ... opinionated.

Kensington Market was a place that was opinionated, selling with an attitude.

Yes, if you want to deal in that 10%, I think you are opinionated.

It isn't anything like aussie retail currently.
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Old Dec 8th 2017, 11:43 pm   #101
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Nicely put sir, perceptive.

Let me expand. I think people will wear about a 10% margin for great service and experience. Past this point they might visit the bricks'n'mortar, but they will eventually buy online. That's particularly true of Amazon, who offer pretty good service themselves.

I've been looking for the gap, between where Amazon are, and where retail could be. It exists in that 10%. And that doesn't encompass expensive floorspace, nor does it encompass spotty little oiks masquerading as customer service.

If I wanted to buy a new mobile phone, and assuming I didn't know anything, I wouldn't be going to a retail space to get sold at. And I wouldn't necessarily be going to Amazon either, who are value neutral.


Ever noticed, if there is a piece of media where the hero is 'tooling up', the type of place the hero goes to - the vibe of the place? I think that tells something about what somewhere that doesn't race to the bottom on price looks like - what that 10% of potential value entails. It isn't value neutral, it has an attitude, and above all it focuses on the service that can be delivered, not the brand. If anything, it is .... hostile ... opinionated.

Kensington Market was a place that was opinionated, selling with an attitude.

Yes, if you want to deal in that 10%, I think you are opinionated.

It isn't anything like aussie retail currently.
This is where you come unstuck. Its all about what you would do. Sitting inside the Werribee McMansion all day, plucking orders off the internet might be for you, but not for others.

For starters, not everyone desires a bit of Werribee or a McMansion.

Then there's the ladies. They love a bit of shopping, a browse, and throw in the kids, there's hours of entertainment you can throw into a mall.

Are mobile phone shops empty. No way, grab a ticket and wait to be served.

Ever spent anytime in Asia? They love a shopping mall. In Jakarta, the place to be is the mall. Its air conditioned (a big selling point), you can shop, eat, nightclub, whatever you want. There's your "experience" right there.

If you look at the malls in the US that have died and the ones that are thriving, you only have to look at the experience and those where the experience is, is where the big retailers want to be.

Amazon didn't kill off "some" US malls, lack of change did.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/shopping-centres-are-undergoing-a-revolution-and-we-cant-get-enough-of-it/news-story/9267f6f2e9708cc456600c6e57cd5fd1
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Old Dec 9th 2017, 2:09 am   #102
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
If you look at the malls in the US that have died and the ones that are thriving, you only have to look at the experience and those where the experience is, is where the big retailers want to be.

Amazon didn't kill off "some" US malls, lack of change did.

Westfield, Mirvac: Shopping centres will undergo a revolution
I think you still aren't getting it. They aren't putting ice rinks into shopping centres because they are doing well, they are putting them in because they are doing badly, they can't rent out the space, and they need something to both make it look occupied and hopefully draw some people in.

If shops themselves were pulling in the punters and doing great business, the shopping centre would be full of them instead.

https://blog.vtex.com/shopping-malls-market/

Oh, and the point behind the

Quote:
If I wanted to buy a new mobile phone, and assuming I didn't know anything, I wouldn't be going to a retail space to get sold at. And I wouldn't necessarily be going to Amazon either, who are value neutral.
is that most people research online, both prices, problems and optimum bets using authentic voices - not sales voices.

Quote:
96% of consumers do an on-line search before deciding to go to the store;
95% research the product before buying it at the physical store;
92% spend more time doing an on-line search than inside the store;
93% check whether they can purchase on-line;
87% check online whether the store they intend to go has the product they want;
72% purchased from on-line stores which they had never known personally;
66% purchased on-line and picked up the product at the store.
First port of call is online, way before you get to a physical store (if ever). As such the 'sales experience' is mainly in avoiding the pushy sales types who know less about the stock than you do.
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Old Dec 9th 2017, 3:42 am   #103
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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I think you still aren't getting it. They aren't putting ice rinks into shopping centres because they are doing well, they are putting them in because they are doing badly, they can't rent out the space, and they need something to both make it look occupied and hopefully draw some people in.

If shops themselves were pulling in the punters and doing great business, the shopping centre would be full of them instead.
You like a stagnate business model don't you. When people say "you don't get it" its a clear sign the argument is failing. And your argument is bricks and mortar is dead because you don't like leaving the house.

And just like Amazon have expanded their services. Cloud, Bricks and Mortar, Entertainment, Westfield is expanding too.

Not only in the doom and gloom US where apparently Amazon are picking off malls at will, but into residential property.

Its all about making money, not saving money.

Westfield shares anyone?

https://www.fool.com.au/2017/12/01/why-westfield-corp-ltd-is-my-top-pick-to-buy-now/

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
https://blog.vtex.com/shopping-malls-market/

Oh, and the point behind the

is that most people research online, both prices, problems and optimum bets using authentic voices - not sales voices.

First port of call is online, way before you get to a physical store (if ever). As such the 'sales experience' is mainly in avoiding the pushy sales types who know less about the stock than you do.
First port of call should be online. And as I have told you before, bricks and mortar shops in Australia always feature as the cheapest.

Get you in and get you the up sell.
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Old Dec 9th 2017, 7:43 am   #104
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

I research online but I notice that many, many people dont.

In the same way many, many people don't use internet forums: it would never occur to them.

For a suburbanite: going to the mall is a key leisure activity..there is nothing else left to do..esp on a hot day. The movie theater gets boring after awhile. If you are in a Caroline springs mansion and you don't use the internet, your home theatre, nor the mall all of sudden your life is meaningless...a dog has a better life..
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Old Dec 9th 2017, 9:18 am   #105
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Default Re: Amazon incoming ...

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I research online but I notice that many, many people dont.
The top two bullet points I listed - 96% do a search first, 95% research online first.

Things shifted. Now either someone looks online to check the market/alternatives, or asks someone they know who knows what they suggest (possibly via facebook), and THEY go online to check, suggest alternatives.

Relatively very few people go into a shop blind anymore, particularly for the larger purchases.
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