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The town where families rely on food hand-outs

The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Old Mar 18th 2011, 11:31 am
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
Surely nobody expects to walk out of the airport and get and sack of money given to them.

The title of your thread strongly suggests that families are relying on charitable food hand-outs to survive at all, and is obviously going for shock value.
Well the title is taken from the newspaper article, but yes it seemed of interest! I must admit (as I wrote earlier) I'm a little surprised that people who've been in steady work for years yet have no resources to survive the first few weeks of unemployment prior to receiving benefits.
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Old Mar 19th 2011, 12:30 pm
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
Well the title is taken from the newspaper article, but yes it seemed of interest! I must admit (as I wrote earlier) I'm a little surprised that people who've been in steady work for years yet have no resources to survive the first few weeks of unemployment prior to receiving benefits.
Perhaps if they've worked a long time they don't understand the benefits system, but as you say, any prudent person makes sure they have a few months expenses saved up if it's at all possible. Unfortunately, some people go the other way and get in debt, so they're really in it up to the neck when the pay packet stops.

I've been impressed by the lack of desperate poverty in the UK after seeing so many people living on the street in Canada. Over here, it seems the social services do try to do something for most people in need.

Stevie, I think you live in the UK and believe it's all wonderful elsewhere.

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Old Mar 19th 2011, 1:34 pm
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by Bevm
Perhaps if they've worked a long time they don't understand the benefits system, but as you say, any prudent person makes sure they have a few months expenses saved up if it's at all possible. Unfortunately, some people go the other way and get in debt, so they're really in it up to the neck when the pay packet stops.

I've been impressed by the lack of desperate poverty in the UK after seeing so many people living on the street in Canada. Over here, it seems the social services do try to do something for most people in need.

Stevie, I think you live in the UK and believe it's all wonderful elsewhere.


Bev
Thank you for telling me what I believe.

As it happens I think a bit of knowledge can be very useful to those about to make a life-changing decision. Yes, there are many wondrous things about the UK - the parks, the country pubs, the landscape in Spring etc. But if things are difficult in parts of the country job-wise, perhaps we should be open about that to those working abroad thinking about coming back? The unemployment figures are now steadily edging upwards (20,000 increase last month) and there are a lot more to hit with on-going cuts. Obviously it's a message that isn't intended for those in a worse position. But most of us are quite capable of working out things for ourselves Bev. My message is to think carefully about coming back if you are currently in work, and at least choose the area where you're most likely to find work if you do make the move (obviously even better if you can apply and secure a job before making the move). Now where in that message am I saying "it's all wonderful elsewhere"?
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Old Mar 19th 2011, 6:46 pm
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

In the U.K., unemployment is calculated from those receiving unemployment benefits, and the many other benefits available in the U.K to those unemployed for reasons other than job loss, even for those who have just got off the boat, as it were.

The U.K rate of unemployment quoted is 8.8%.

It was not so long ago that the U.K. had the lowest unemployment rate in the western industrial world-3.5%.

Here are the latest Stats Canada unemployment numbers by province.

Newfoundland and Labrador-12.8%
Prince Edward Island 11.7%
Nova Scotia 9.5%
New Brunswick 9.8%
Quebec 7.7%
Ontario 8.0%
Manitoba 5.3%
Saskatchewan 5.7%
Alberta 5.7%
British Columbia 8.8%

The unemployment rate in Canada would likely be very much higher but for the vast natural resources in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

Canada's headline method of reporting unemployment is derived from those receiving E.I. Depending in which province an E.I. recipient lives, unemployment benefits are time limited, unlike the U.K. After that, you are on your own. There are none of the many benefits available to those in financial difficulties, such as the U.K.'s housing benefit. If an employee falls sick here and is not covered by a company insurance scheme, the E.I. scheme will pay sickness benefits for 15 weeks only. Hidden unemployment here is scarcely reported.

My view is that if those looking to emigrate to Canada as a consequence of poor job prospects in the U.K. cannot get a job in the U.K., they are unlikely to get one here. I have colleagues here, young and older, with professional designations walking the streets.

The level of economic activity in the U.K. far exceeds that in Canada as evidenced by their GDP-U.K ranks #8, Canada #14. Further, there is very little difference in the per capita income between the U.K. and Canada.

Food banks and shelters for the homeless are scarcely remarked on in Canada because they are so commonplace. I doubt very much if U.K. families have to rely on food banks for any but a very limited period given the extensive benefits system in place.

A long ago returned-to-the-UK friend of mine said, "I wouldn't want to be poor in Canada." Too true. Last year, I paid $9800.00 to a dentist for three crown replacements.
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Old Mar 19th 2011, 7:27 pm
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
My message is to think carefully about coming back if you are currently in work, and at least choose the area where you're most likely to find work if you do make the move (obviously even better if you can apply and secure a job before making the move).
I completely agree, and have said so myself.

You added "Now where in that message am I saying "it's all wonderful elsewhere"?"

Nowhere. I said, "I think," which is just my opinion. I could have said, "I guess."

Bev
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Old Mar 20th 2011, 1:39 am
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by dave2003
The U.K rate of unemployment quoted is 8.8%.
Just a few days ago, BBC News reported UK unemployment to be 8% not 8.8%
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Old Mar 20th 2011, 2:44 am
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by roaringmouse
Just a few days ago, BBC News reported UK unemployment to be 8% not 8.8%
It's 20% where I am
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Old Mar 20th 2011, 12:52 pm
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

When I got back to Australia last year, the area I lived in had an unemployment rate of 8% too.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 7:40 pm
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
I must admit (as I wrote earlier) I'm a little surprised that people who've been in steady work for years yet have no resources to survive the first few weeks of unemployment prior to receiving benefits.
Originally Posted by Bevm
Perhaps if they've worked a long time they don't understand the benefits system, but as you say, any prudent person makes sure they have a few months expenses saved up if it's at all possible. Unfortunately, some people go the other way and get in debt, so they're really in it up to the neck when the pay packet stops.
It's not even really a case of being prudent.

The benefit system works fortnightly in arrears for unemployed and weekly in arrears for lone parents. Providing information is supplied the lone parent claims and gets paid after a week while the unemployed person gets paid after two weeks (or the first week and then every two weeks)....give or take a few days.

All those monthly paid people should have a month's money to play with. If it's not a full month's pay, that's because they didn't work a full month so they could sign on when they finish - for example, they finish halfway through a month, they just had a month's pay 2 weeks ago and they have another half month to come. There is no reason why they should need money earlier than they'd have it if they remained working.

Weekly paid people may work a week in hand, so they finish work with a week's pay and another week to come. If they claim benefits straight away and don't spend their wages at a faster rate than if they were still working, their benefit will be in payment while they have wages left.

And all of this ignores that wages are far higher than benefits, so something like a couple of weeks pay ought to last a month anyway.

When people have a problem it's usually of their own making - they delay a claim (perhaps believing they'll quickly get another job) or they blow their wages on something.

It might be tempting to spend your holiday pay on a bill, but not very wise if it leaves you short. Why would you spend money that you wouldn't spend with a wage coming in and then expect "the Social" to come up with something immediately? I never understood that.
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Old Mar 22nd 2011, 12:26 am
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

The posts here seem to assume that people who claim benefits have a) been working for years and b) have enough disposable income to put money aside for a rainy day. Other situations outlined show the best case scenario. There are so many people, on both sides of the Atlantic who were struggling to make ends meet even when working. And there are many others who could not possibly live within the guidelines that you both propose.
You are obviously not living in that world.
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Old Mar 22nd 2011, 2:28 am
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by bandrui
The posts here seem to assume that people who claim benefits have a) been working for years and b) have enough disposable income to put money aside for a rainy day.
Not sure who that's aimed at but just to clarify, my comment was directed at people living from payday to payday regardless of how long they may have worked and whether they had savings.
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Old Mar 22nd 2011, 2:32 am
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Not sure who that's aimed at but just to clarify, my comment was directed at people living from payday to payday regardless of how long they may have worked and whether they had savings.
I was feeling that the post indicated that all would be OK due to the timing but there are those who would not necessarily be able to manage due to a myriad of other possibilities.
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Old Mar 22nd 2011, 3:03 am
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by bandrui
I was feeling that the post indicated that all would be OK due to the timing but there are those who would not necessarily be able to manage due to a myriad of other possibilities.
Well, yes, there will always be exceptions. But, generally, if you claim promptly there should be no problem even if you don't have rainy day money.

I've come across too many situations where, with a benefit level of, say, £50 a week someone has been taking home £1000 a month every 30th and I'm interviewing them on the 10th of the month with nothing left from 10 days earlier and they wouldn't have received their next income until the 30th if they were still working.

Where's it all gone and why? See what I mean?

Last edited by BristolUK; Mar 22nd 2011 at 3:10 am.
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Old Mar 22nd 2011, 4:16 am
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Default Re: The town where families rely on food hand-outs

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Well, yes, there will always be exceptions. But, generally, if you claim promptly there should be no problem even if you don't have rainy day money.

I've come across too many situations where, with a benefit level of, say, £50 a week someone has been taking home £1000 a month every 30th and I'm interviewing them on the 10th of the month with nothing left from 10 days earlier and they wouldn't have received their next income until the 30th if they were still working.

Where's it all gone and why? See what I mean?
Absolutely That is mind-boggling!
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