Moving back biggest mistake

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Old Dec 6th 2015, 11:19 pm
  #46  
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I agree.
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Old Mar 3rd 2016, 3:59 am
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

Originally Posted by Anenglishrose
Hi to everyone,

Came across this forum while trying to find expats who had returned back to England. Here's a quick background on my story. My Husband, young toddler and myself moved to America back in 2010. We weren't in a great position in England when we left low paid jobs, no hope of getting on the property ladder anytime soon ect ect. My husbands company offered him a great job with a great pay we jumped at the chance and saw it as a chance to better ourselves. To begin with I just couldn't take to America. I moaned daily about everything I missed family, friends, food, Shops everything you can think off. Come the last 18 months there we had our second child and I began to like living in America but I always thought the grass was still greener in England. Fast forward to January this year my husband recieved a promotion and the opportunity to return to England I told him to jump on it happy that we would finally be able to return and we did in March. What a mistake I can't believe what I have given up. My husband is also very unhappy back here. Looking through the forum everyone seems very happy to of returned is there anyone out there that wishes they hadn't and how did you get over that longing to leave again?
I moved back to the UK in April 2014 after 12 years in Canada. I found work in the UK very quickly but I could not afford to buy property. I had a series of very unpleasant experiences in the UK private rental sector and, as I work in the social services field, I realised, with the current government cutbacks that things were only going to get more and more difficult with respect to my working conditions.

I made plans to move back to Canada in April 2015 because longterm I felt things were not viable for me in the UK as I was unable to envisage being able to buy property and I could not face renting in the UK for the rest of my life. I got ill though and so I eventually moved back to Canada earlier this year.

I don't regret moving back to the UK altho' financially it hit me very hard - I missed it when I lived in Canada the first time around and I needed to go back to figure out where home is. But it had changed a lot in the 12 years I had been away in Canada. There were things I loved but, unless you have money and/or can buy property, things are very challenging financially and the cultural tone set by the media and the current government isn't very nice for people who are poor/low paid or who can't afford to buy property. I think unless you've got lots of money or have a really supportive friend/family network it's incredibly challenging to get by in the UK now.

I also really missed the Canadian upbeat culture far more than I realised. And with the new Canadian government there is a different political tone in the country which I find more easy to live with than what presently operates in the UK with the current government's narrative. Canada isn't perfect but compared to what I lived through with my recent stay in the UK, I find it a lot more bearable here.

I hope to have the spare money at some point to go back and visit the UK for holidays but, at present, I see no reason to return to live there. I am happy where I am in Canada and, while it's been a very challenging few years, Canada feels more like home now.

After I recovered from my illness I took a trip back to Canada before I moved back to see whether I felt able to move back - and that was really helpful in terms of helping me decide what to do. It was a leap of faith though moving back ... but I'd got to the point where I thought I should just do it and take a chance and if it didn't work out, I'd move again.

So far I've been back 2 months and I'm happy. I start a job this weekend. I live in a nice rental with kind people. And I start a 1 year course later this year which, once I've completed, should give me more job opportunities for a better salary. I'm in my fifties and not well off so taking these decisions hasn't been easy - but I'm glad I have taken them.

I'm also very glad to have left the UK government behind - and I like the values of the new Canadian one.

If you really want to move back to the US, you'll find a way and it will happen.

Hope this helps.
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 11:45 am
  #48  
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Hi , I decided to check back in after some time ,re moving back home .
your ad really hit me .
I moved back home about six months ago ,after 37 years in Montreal.
I was working for the English Montreal school board as a behavioural specialist / child care worker, befor that I worked for almost 20 years for the social service in Montreal as a Educator / child care worker . Things weren't going great there due to my lack of french and cuts .
I had wanted to return home for a few years so I put all my belongings in storage .I shipped some cloths and returned with my cat.

It's a disaster I am really becoming depressed at the situation .I moved to Hull where I was from , but long story short after week and weeks of job hunting ,apartment hunting with no luck.
I decided to do a two month house sit in Gloucestershire believing I had time to settle in and there would be more opportunities there.
I have spent 15 hours a day on average often more job searching, visiting agencies in all surrounding town and cities. It has cost me most of my savings.
only to be told over and over there are very few jobs in my field and the ones there are pay 7 to 9 pounds an hour, and cuts are happening everywhere. After earning $31 an hr that's a massive drop .
I could have handled that, if it weren't for the rents and rules .
Rent on average with heating ,water etc is 800 pounds . Not only is that not possible on 7 an hour, but NO one will rent to me because I'm unemployed ,I have applied for hundreds. They won't accept my references , credit check from Canada and I have no history here .
I finally gave in an applied for JSA but get just 280 a month my bus fares are almost a hundred and phone 25 which I need for job hunting . No other help.I could get help with housing another 380 but that won't cover even half the rent , and like I said every one I applied to say NO BENEFITS.
I have looked at sharing but even that they dont want benefits and 400 min for just a room. Plus I am still paying storage in Canada,

I am really desperate now , thinking I should go back to Canada but to what , things were already bad in Montreal ,with language and budget cuts .
I have applied for lots of jobs in Toronto but no luck there either and rents very high .
any advice ??
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 11:57 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

Maddie1959,

I'm so sorry you have been having such a bad time, it has to be so hard especially being by yourself. You have probably already thought of this but with your background what about trying for a job as a live in Nanny? The money can be pretty good when you factor in that your accommodation is included. Sometimes use of a car is included also.

The Lady magazine has adverts and there Recruitment agencies that specialize in placing Nannies, mother's helpers etc.
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 12:35 pm
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You could also consider becoming a live in carer for the elderly. Your background would be very suitable, and the agencies offer training.
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 2:26 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

Originally Posted by maddie1959
Hi , I decided to check back in after some time ,re moving back home .
your ad really hit me .
I moved back home about six months ago ,after 37 years in Montreal.
I was working for the English Montreal school board as a behavioural specialist / child care worker, befor that I worked for almost 20 years for the social service in Montreal as a Educator / child care worker . Things weren't going great there due to my lack of french and cuts .
I had wanted to return home for a few years so I put all my belongings in storage .I shipped some cloths and returned with my cat.

It's a disaster I am really becoming depressed at the situation .I moved to Hull where I was from , but long story short after week and weeks of job hunting ,apartment hunting with no luck.
I decided to do a two month house sit in Gloucestershire believing I had time to settle in and there would be more opportunities there.
I have spent 15 hours a day on average often more job searching, visiting agencies in all surrounding town and cities. It has cost me most of my savings.
only to be told over and over there are very few jobs in my field and the ones there are pay 7 to 9 pounds an hour, and cuts are happening everywhere. After earning $31 an hr that's a massive drop .
I could have handled that, if it weren't for the rents and rules .
Rent on average with heating ,water etc is 800 pounds . Not only is that not possible on 7 an hour, but NO one will rent to me because I'm unemployed ,I have applied for hundreds. They won't accept my references , credit check from Canada and I have no history here .
I finally gave in an applied for JSA but get just 280 a month my bus fares are almost a hundred and phone 25 which I need for job hunting . No other help.I could get help with housing another 380 but that won't cover even half the rent , and like I said every one I applied to say NO BENEFITS.
I have looked at sharing but even that they dont want benefits and 400 min for just a room. Plus I am still paying storage in Canada,

I am really desperate now , thinking I should go back to Canada but to what , things were already bad in Montreal ,with language and budget cuts .
I have applied for lots of jobs in Toronto but no luck there either and rents very high .
any advice ??
Maddie I am so sorry you are having such a tough time and I can COMPLETELY relate to what you have written. I was working in adult mental health in the UK before I got ill and I could not make ends meet with the ridiculous rental I was paying which consumed 75% of my f-ing income just in rent and utility and council tax bills. That was in Hampshire where there are a lot of carer type jobs - but, as you say, it's impossible to live on the income.

All the people I knew who were managing who could not afford to buy were living with family - there were adult children in their 30's and 40's living with their family. The UK rental situation is an f-ing disgrace and I am so glad to be out of it.

Like you, I also did not qualify for any benefits despite being a British Citizen and having spent most of my life in the UK - the current extremely nasty UK government is changing all the rules and I found that their is a whole older generation that owns their own homes, are okay thank you very much and don't give a damn about the suffering of others. You only have to look at the right wing press to see that (and most of the UK press is right wing now).

I was so worried about returning to Canada but I am so glad I left - the UK has changed an unimaginable amount in the 12 years I was away and it's become an incredibly unequal and selfish society. Unfortunately it's only going to get worse until the government changes and I can't see anything changing soon with respect to that. The UK housing crisis is a nightmare. I was extremely lucky to be helped by a charity otherwise I would have been on the street.

In terms of what to do for you, I think you need to decide which country you want to be in first and then take steps to figure out how to make it work. Having said that, I personally (and I'm not psychic so this is my own personal opinion) think that social service and health cuts are going to continue and will drastically impact UK jobs in those sectors and those working in those sectors are going to be "fire fighting" and burning out pretty bloody quick (that's another reason why I left - I'm a Registered Social Worker and there's no way I want to work in UK child protection at the moment with the child poverty levels in the UK - it should be a national shame but few of the older house owning generation seem bothered about it). And I witnessed first hand the impact of cuts to mental health services ...

If you want to be in the UK, in the short term, you need a survival job. You say you are in Gloucestershire. Cheltenham is in Gloucestershire and it had a ton of carer jobs when I last looked at the job market there (I was in Hampshire and they also have a ton of carer jobs). The only way you're going to survive in the short term with the crappy level of salary they offer is to take a carer job with a room - it will mean you will have a roof over your head and food in your belly but I suspect, you probably won't have much freedom in terms of the hours you work and the "free time" you get. But it will tide you over until you can figure out better paid work.

Here's a link to one care agency in Cheltenham that I just looked up online for e.g.: Job Vacancies | Careers | Helping Hands Home Care

That said, I don't know what better paid work you will be able to get in the UK with kids unless you retrain as a school teacher? I think there's a scheme now where you don't even have to have a degree to teach - you learn on the job. And with the new academy system coming in, standards will probably drop further as schools will be taken out of local councils control. But few people want to do that job because the government keep messing around with the system and it's extremely stressful and the burnout rate is high ... but maybe you'll have to look at another completely different opportunity and/or something will come up? The Guardian online is a good place to look for professionally paid jobs in the social services sector, health sector and teaching sector.

Guardian jobs: https://jobs.theguardian.com/?INTCMP...X_GU_JOBS_LINK

In terms of help while you're in this situation, get yourself connected with the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) - they were fantastic with me. There is a CAB in most UK towns. I had trouble with the letting agent and the landlord in my second rental and the CAB were so kind and helpful when I was so ill.

CAB online site: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

In terms of returning to Canada - I don't regret it. Trudeau is in power now and I feel like I can breathe here. I have a survival job at the moment but I'm managing (I still have savings) and I have a 1 year Masters course lined up in the Fall which I hope, once completed, will get me a good job in Ontario (it will be my 4th degree!). If not, then I will take off to Yellowknife or Edmonton (am told there are still jobs in Alberta in social services even though the oil patch has crashed). And if that doesn't work, then I'll go to Australia or where ever else will take me. But Canadian people are so much more accepting here of the reality of poverty and inequality and there is no judgement around being poor like there currently is in the UK where it's seen as your own fault. I am so glad to have left the horrible UK Tory government. At least Canadian's saw the light and threw Harper out!

I've not been to Montreal so I can't compare the job market with other places but I know that some Syrians who arrived in Toronto already have jobs! - in restaurants - it was on the news. That's not to say it's not tough because it is - but there are food banks here that you can access without a referral to a social worker like you have to in the UK. I don't live in Toronto. A taxi driver I was talking to recently told me that there are jobs in Mississauga and that it's easier picking up work in a big city (I live in a small city). But you know how the networking system works here with jobs - it's best to network and volunteer and make connections then people "know" you.

If you can speak some French Maddie then you might find it easier getting work in Ontario because fewer people speak French but there are government jobs that require French - so you would have an advantage that way. Someone told me recently that he thought that there were opportunities for people who speak French in Toronto ... but, at the moment, I don't have the time to commit to learning a language fully. I have a small side business I want to get up and running again and that's my focus when I can find the time to do it.

It's a tough decision to make Maddie and I won't lie to you and say that things in Canada are easier - because they are still tough and I'm glad I've still got some savings left which are a cushion for me. And you don't know what is going to happen if you come back - but you have to decide if you're going to be poor, where's the best place to live? While I met some good people in the UK who helped me and were kind (and I have got some friends their too), a lot of people still don't give a damn and there is a whole swathe of older property owning pensioners who are just so judgmental and don't give a damn (and I met way too many of them).

I felt, while I was scared of the outcome, that if I didn't take a chance, then I would always wonder what would have happened if I had returned to Canada. In the UK I managed to get a very tiny old bachelor rental with a charity who were wonderful to rent from (below market rent) but I really didn't want to live there for ever and with the housing market the way it was, I knew I could not afford to buy and I did not want to move and go back into the UK private rental sector - that was just a non-negotiable with me because it's so f-ing hideous. Plus, I was already living in the South in an area where there were supposed to be lots of good jobs! But the one's I saw paid a salary which a single person would struggle to survive on unless they were living with family due to the ridiculous rentals. And there are no rent controls! People are stunned when I tell them this in Canada - they cannot believe it!

So if I stayed where I was in the UK, then the main option for me in my field was either child protection (if I wanted to do professionally paid work) or working as a low paid carer. If I did the latter, I could find myself being trapped in that work forever and I didn't want to do that. And I didn't want to do UK child protection work given the way the government operate with that system at present.

So I took a risk ... and I still don't know how it will turn out (I'm 52) but I thought if the worst came to the worst, I could always go back and be a carer in a room in the UK!

Canadian friends really reached out to me - one put a word in for me and I got my current job. She also helped me find somewhere to live - I'm currently renting a bedroom in a nice house for $510 CDN all in. And I'm managing with the resources I currently have.

Plus Trudeau is focused on rejigging the economy ... and while there will always be folks who poo poo the whole thing, for me, there is a sense here of optimism and that people care about the poor ... in the UK it's going backwards because too few people care at the moment.

Sorry this is long - but your post really got to me because I know exactly what that's like. I moved back mid January this year and I am so glad to be back in Canada - so glad. But you need to figure out where you belong and, if the worst comes to the worst, where you could be if you got homeless and ill (that was my worst case scenario). And, at the moment, for me, it's in Canada. And it might be that way forever - I might move back at some point, but not while the current government are in power and not until the UK housing crisis is seriously addressed.
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 3:58 pm
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Thank you ALL !
Re nanny and carer Jobs I have applied for several, although to be very honest it is really not at all at 57 years old what I want to do.I would have to give up all my freedom working hours are crazy and six days a week . All my belonging are just sitting in storage and costing 300 a month to pay for storage.
Englishmaple
Thank you at least I now know its not me , I was beginning to think there was something wrong with me that I wasn't doing enough.
I could never have imagined it been this difficult and or the lack of help and support I have faced .There are so many incidences of doors shutting in my face I can't even begin to name them.
I am made to feel like I am a leper by some people, trying to scam the government out of benefits.Even when I proved with documentation ,I have always worked, put myself through college and some university, no debt ,and excellent references. I still couldn't get an apartment. plus fighting with Naric to except my educational equivalency .They only gave my a level 3 extended.and didn't accept my courses from McGill.
people dont seem to care for the most part .
I feel so sorry for the working class here . I always believed I came from a country that treated its people with dignity and respect .What I have seen and been subjected to is discrimination of the working class or unemployed especially when it come to renting.

I didn't want to go back , to canada but now feel I should however I have spent most of my saving surviving so would have to go on welfare. thus I would be in the same situation there with no job and no place to live .I am so embarrassed and depressed over this. But I know I can not afford the luxury of taking time out for depression .On top of all this I have meniere's disease and of course the stress is triggering attacks.

Sorry I'm just ranting, need to decide but to be honest I no longer trust myself to make good choices .
Let go let God
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 4:33 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

English Maple, while I have a lot of sympathy with the problems you experienced in the UK, frankly I think you need a bit of perspective.

Firstly, on homelessness, OK Britain has a housing crisis, but actually Canada has a much bigger problem. Estimates of homelessness in Canada vary from the official estimate of 150,000 to 300,000, and this figure only includes people sleeping in shelters or sleeping rough. In the UK the estimate is 14,650 households, and this figure includes people in unsuitable accommodation, not just people without a roof over their head. That is a tiny fraction of the number of homeless in Canada. Yes, rents in much of the UK are much higher than in much of Canada, but that doesn't mean that that it has a callous attitude to the homeless whereas Canada is all cuddly and caring.

If you move to Alberta, you'll find there are no rent controls there either. In fact, I'm not sure there are any rent controls outside Ontario.

Secondly, according to Unicef, child poverty is also higher in Canada than the UK, though not by much and for income inequality Canada and the UK are on a par.

I've never voted Tory in my life and I agree that Trudeau's election is uplifting compared to the UK's prospect of at least another decade of Conservative government. But, it remains the case that there is still much more of a social democratic consensus in the UK, and although the Tories are chipping away at the safety net, it remains more complete than in Canada.

Finally, as one of the older generation with a house I own, I find it rather offensive that you think 'we' don't care about the problems of others.

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Old Mar 28th 2016, 4:56 pm
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

Originally Posted by maddie1959
Thank you ALL !
Re nanny and carer Jobs I have applied for several, although to be very honest it is really not at all at 57 years old what I want to do.I would have to give up all my freedom working hours are crazy and six days a week . All my belonging are just sitting in storage and costing 300 a month to pay for storage.
Englishmaple
Thank you at least I now know its not me , I was beginning to think there was something wrong with me that I wasn't doing enough.
I could never have imagined it been this difficult and or the lack of help and support I have faced .There are so many incidences of doors shutting in my face I can't even begin to name them.
I am made to feel like I am a leper by some people, trying to scam the government out of benefits.Even when I proved with documentation ,I have always worked, put myself through college and some university, no debt ,and excellent references. I still couldn't get an apartment. plus fighting with Naric to except my educational equivalency .They only gave my a level 3 extended.and didn't accept my courses from McGill.
people dont seem to care for the most part .
I feel so sorry for the working class here . I always believed I came from a country that treated its people with dignity and respect .What I have seen and been subjected to is discrimination of the working class or unemployed especially when it come to renting.

I didn't want to go back , to canada but now feel I should however I have spent most of my saving surviving so would have to go on welfare. thus I would be in the same situation there with no job and no place to live .I am so embarrassed and depressed over this. But I know I can not afford the luxury of taking time out for depression .On top of all this I have meniere's disease and of course the stress is triggering attacks.

Sorry I'm just ranting, need to decide but to be honest I no longer trust myself to make good choices .
Let go let God
Oh Maddie I am so sorry to hear of your situation - it touched a nerve for me because I went through so much similar when I returned to the UK. I would honestly say to people now that, if you are single, and are not exceptionally wealthy (i.e. on a really good salary), I would not recommend living in the UK - unless you have family you can fall back on. Most people I knew were really struggling - and these were good people working in social services providing essential services and being paid an absolute pittance. And the judgement of the older home owning generation just astounded me - clearly having a free TV licence and all the other perks (free bus travel, good state pension) matter far more than the suffering of others ... honestly I am just so glad to be out of it.

I did have some good friends in Yorkshire and I think I could (and still could) fall back on them in extremis. But they rent too and pay a ridiculously high amount of rent and the rental accommodation isn't great. I thought of moving North but the area has been decimated by job cuts and salaries are so much lower relative to the high rents there - something that people don't get who say "why don't you move North?" because I seriously looked into it and I've lived in several Northern cities in the past. Just to say I have moved a lot - over 45 times in my lifetime so far - and the stress of living in insecure UK rentals as well as the awful private landlords - was one of the major reasons I decided to leave the UK again. I have owned in the past in the UK but now it's impossible to unless you are extremely wealthy.

Is there anyone you can reconnect with in Canada who could help you if you were to move back? I found friends here were just so kind and helpful - and they weren't initially super close friends either (though they are now!) but they understood that anyone can get sick and life happens. I had enough savings to get myself back and while my health isn't brilliant (I've had a few health issues since I returned) just getting out of the UK has helped enormously with my stress levels - so really know that it's not you that's failing.

I felt so "judged" in the UK and it was horrible. While I was waiting for my UK professional social work registration, I worked an 18K job - and I recall someone turning around and saying "you've got degrees and you're working here?" so scornfully. And I was doing a good job helping people who were sick rather than sitting on my arse doing nothing - and I needed to work as well (in fact if I could have picked up a second job I would have but the shifts I worked made that impossible). But the attitude and judgment of people was horrible. Plus I saw first hand the impact of the social service cuts and NHS cuts (which impacted the services I was providing for clients) - to be honest Maddie, I realised within 6 months of moving back to the UK that it wasn't going to be viable for me financially to continue to live there unless I moved very far North (cheaper rentals) and worked in child protection (which, with my Canadian social work degree was the only area I could get an easy "in" into with my lack of UK social work experience - all the agencies want 2 years experience). And I really didn't want to work in UK child protection because of the way it operates.

There are some good people in the UK Maddie so if you are determined to stay there you need to make connections. I found the Citizens Advice Bureau people really helpful so I would recommend connecting with them. They are often very overworked because of the levels of poverty and inequality in the UK now as well as the horrific housing crisis but I found most of them very kind. They may know of organisations who can help you - you need kindness and support to get through what you're going through.

I also got help from the Quakers - they are a Christian organization who help and support people. I also approached an Evangelical church in the area I lived in who run a support group for people who are struggling - and they helped put me in touch with the almshouse charity. Almshouses are charitable organisations who provide housing at very low cost for people who are going through a tough time - they are dotted around the UK and so far, thank God, the current government hasn't touched them. As you are 57, I would think you would be a very good candidate for their help as they tend to help older folks in particular and you have your health issues too. You don't say where you are in Gloucestershire but there are some in that county:

for example Almshouses, South Gloucestershire, Gloucestershire, BS36 1RD | Amenity housing, unsupported housing for older people

The vacancy list is here:

Almshouse Vacancies

And this is the organisation:

The National Almshouse Association

Some of them have local connections criteria - i.e. you must have had a local connection but not all of them do - if you look at the vacancy list you'll see at least one that currently hasn't.

Also, actually connecting with folks to do with this would help as I bet not all the vacancies are listed. I was lucky in that one became vacant just when I needed it and it really helped me to get better - renting from a nice landlord and feeling safe contributed an enormous amount to my well being.

Don't feel embarrassed about this - you came to the UK with the best of intentions. I did exactly the same. And I was offered 3 interviews in my field in the space of a few weeks on my arrival - something I struggled to get in Ontario (and at the time I was too chicken to go to Alberta which, I'm now glad I didn't go as the economy there has tanked!). I also didn't (at the time) want to do yet another degree (which I needed to do to get work in Ontario - and which I am now doing this Fall). But the UK housing crisis means that unless you have 2 incomes or are extraordinarily wealthy or an extremely good salary or have family money, then you are going to struggle in private rental ... so really don't blame yourself - I can't emphasise that enough.

And as for not being able to take time out to be ill with depression ... well I got very very ill from the stress of trying to make ends meet and living in insecure rental housing with unpleasant landlords - and everyone I met through the almshouse and Quakers and the church understood. I wasn't even a member of that church and they helped me.

Some people get it - that things are extremely tough. But too few of the older generation do and the judgement they heap on people is horrible ... I had one smug 80 year old turn around to me and tell me scornfully that she didn't have any degrees but she'd always been able to feed herself ... words fail me. Turned out she'd bought her house years ago and she had a good pension and she was doing alright thank you very much. At the time I was trying so hard to get better and do all the things that the Dr told me to do - and it was really tough having comments like that thrown at me.

The smugness and self-centredness I came across in the older generation (aside from the Quakers and folks who helped me who worked in the churches and almshouse) astounded me. Part of my getting well involved me doing a lot of exercise (I got a GP exercise referral) and because I didn't have a lot of money and was trying to conserve my remaining savings (as I didn't qualify for any benefits) I joined some free walking groups. A lot of them had pensioners as members. While a few were kind, some people made comments which hurt me so much that I just had to stop going! The judgement and out of touch views astounded me. I can only hope that one day when they are more vulnerable they appreciate what it's like when you are trying to do your best and things don't work out.

And I completely hear you with respect to not wanting to work crazy hours with the care work - that's what I decided not to do because I knew I wanted a life. While things aren't easy here the absence of the levels of judgement that I experienced in the UK and the fact that people are kind and have helped out has helped enormously with settling back into Canada.

Do try following up with these UK organisations Maddie - the almshouse people in particular should be able to help you, especially if you are able to relocate within the UK (and the CAB may also be able to help you with that).

And you need to make a decision about your belongings in Montreal as soon as you can as well because 300 a month in storage is way too much to be paying if you are struggling in the UK. I moved with all my stuff to the UK but got rid of even more of it while I was there and moved back with only the absolute essentials ... and I'm okay with that. People matter far more than things and given that I may well have to move again for work once I've completed my Masters, travelling light seems to be the way to go.

Last edited by Englishmaple; Mar 28th 2016 at 5:01 pm.
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 5:09 pm
  #55  
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

Oh Maddie,

I'm so sorry I can hear how depressed and beaten down you are by it all. Accommodation is very expensive in the UK and whilst two income families who have not stepped off the UK rent/house owning market can often come back and cope with the cost, for you coming back by yourself and having to rely on one income (when you can secure one) it has to be so difficult.

I've worked as a Nanny and you'd be surprised the hours etc. that can be negotiated. Yes, there are employers that want 6 day weeks and to "own" you but plenty where you only work 5 days.

I think it is completely understandable that you are feeling depressed and defeated. It's all been very stressful for you I'm sure any of us would have struggled in similar circumstances. Wish I could think of something more useful to say, hang in there and keep talking to us on here, someone is bound to come up with something you haven't thought of yet.
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 5:14 pm
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

Originally Posted by Editha
English Maple, while I have a lot of sympathy with the problems you experienced in the UK, frankly I think you need a bit of perspective.

Firstly, on homelessness, OK Britain has a housing crisis, but actually Canada has a much bigger problem. Estimates of homelessness in Canada vary from the official estimate of 150,000 to 300,000, and this figure only includes people sleeping in shelters or sleeping rough. In the UK the estimate is 14,650 households, and this figure includes people in unsuitable accommodation, not just people without a roof over their head. That is a tiny fraction of the number of homeless in Canada. Yes, rents in much of the UK are much higher than in much of Canada, but that doesn't mean that that it has a callous attitude to the homeless whereas Canada is all cuddly and caring.

If you move to Alberta, you'll find there are no rent controls there either. In fact, I'm not sure there are any rent controls outside Ontario.

Secondly, according to Unicef, child poverty is also higher in Canada than the UK, though not by much and for income inequality Canada and the UK are on a par.

I've never voted Tory in my life and I agree that Trudeau's election is uplifting compared to the UK's prospect of at least another decade of Conservative government. But, it remains the case that there is still much more of a social democratic consensus in the UK, and although the Tories are chipping away at the safety net, it remains more complete than in Canada.

Finally, as one of the older generation with a house I own, I find it rather offensive that you think 'we' don't care about the problems of others.
You might find it offensive but frankly, its the truth. And you are out of touch. You said yourself you're a homeowner. I suggest you do some volunteering at the local Citizens Advice Bureau and educate yourself with some experience at the sharp end ... I worked at the sharp end in the UK and saw the reality for myself - have you?

Sure Canada has a homelessness issue too - but nowhere near the judgement that people in the UK put on people.

And no Canada is not all cuddly and caring - as I said to Maddie in my original post - things are tough here too - but the level of judgment in the UK is a whole other level.

Sorry but that's my experience - not yours. I had the worst year of my life last year in the UK and I am so glad to be out of it.

And please don't engage me in further debate around my beliefs - these are based on my experiences and I am entitled to hold them.

You are welcome to have your beliefs - just don't foist them on me.

Last edited by Englishmaple; Mar 28th 2016 at 5:18 pm.
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 5:27 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

I am certainly not out of touch, just because I own a house. That is a ridiculous statement. I've quoted the stats to you. Britain's homelessness problem is completely dwarfed by Canada's. I'm sorry you had a miserable time, but I don't think that can be entirely attributed to conditions in the UK, compared with Canada.
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 6:13 pm
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

Originally Posted by Englishmaple
Oh Maddie I am so sorry to hear of your situation - it touched a nerve for me because I went through so much similar when I returned to the UK. I would honestly say to people now that, if you are single, and are not exceptionally wealthy (i.e. on a really good salary), I would not recommend living in the UK - unless you have family you can fall back on. Most people I knew were really struggling - and these were good people working in social services providing essential services and being paid an absolute pittance. And the judgement of the older home owning generation just astounded me - clearly having a free TV licence and all the other perks (free bus travel, good state pension) matter far more than the suffering of others ... honestly I am just so glad to be out of it.

I did have some good friends in Yorkshire and I think I could (and still could) fall back on them in extremis. But they rent too and pay a ridiculously high amount of rent and the rental accommodation isn't great. I thought of moving North but the area has been decimated by job cuts and salaries are so much lower relative to the high rents there - something that people don't get who say "why don't you move North?" because I seriously looked into it and I've lived in several Northern cities in the past. Just to say I have moved a lot - over 45 times in my lifetime so far - and the stress of living in insecure UK rentals as well as the awful private landlords - was one of the major reasons I decided to leave the UK again. I have owned in the past in the UK but now it's impossible to unless you are extremely wealthy.

Is there anyone you can reconnect with in Canada who could help you if you were to move back? I found friends here were just so kind and helpful - and they weren't initially super close friends either (though they are now!) but they understood that anyone can get sick and life happens. I had enough savings to get myself back and while my health isn't brilliant (I've had a few health issues since I returned) just getting out of the UK has helped enormously with my stress levels - so really know that it's not you that's failing.

I felt so "judged" in the UK and it was horrible. While I was waiting for my UK professional social work registration, I worked an 18K job - and I recall someone turning around and saying "you've got degrees and you're working here?" so scornfully. And I was doing a good job helping people who were sick rather than sitting on my arse doing nothing - and I needed to work as well (in fact if I could have picked up a second job I would have but the shifts I worked made that impossible). But the attitude and judgment of people was horrible. Plus I saw first hand the impact of the social service cuts and NHS cuts (which impacted the services I was providing for clients) - to be honest Maddie, I realised within 6 months of moving back to the UK that it wasn't going to be viable for me financially to continue to live there unless I moved very far North (cheaper rentals) and worked in child protection (which, with my Canadian social work degree was the only area I could get an easy "in" into with my lack of UK social work experience - all the agencies want 2 years experience). And I really didn't want to work in UK child protection because of the way it operates.

There are some good people in the UK Maddie so if you are determined to stay there you need to make connections. I found the Citizens Advice Bureau people really helpful so I would recommend connecting with them. They are often very overworked because of the levels of poverty and inequality in the UK now as well as the horrific housing crisis but I found most of them very kind. They may know of organisations who can help you - you need kindness and support to get through what you're going through.

I also got help from the Quakers - they are a Christian organization who help and support people. I also approached an Evangelical church in the area I lived in who run a support group for people who are struggling - and they helped put me in touch with the almshouse charity. Almshouses are charitable organisations who provide housing at very low cost for people who are going through a tough time - they are dotted around the UK and so far, thank God, the current government hasn't touched them. As you are 57, I would think you would be a very good candidate for their help as they tend to help older folks in particular and you have your health issues too. You don't say where you are in Gloucestershire but there are some in that county:

for example Almshouses, South Gloucestershire, Gloucestershire, BS36 1RD | Amenity housing, unsupported housing for older people

The vacancy list is here:

Almshouse Vacancies

And this is the organisation:

The National Almshouse Association

Some of them have local connections criteria - i.e. you must have had a local connection but not all of them do - if you look at the vacancy list you'll see at least one that currently hasn't.

Also, actually connecting with folks to do with this would help as I bet not all the vacancies are listed. I was lucky in that one became vacant just when I needed it and it really helped me to get better - renting from a nice landlord and feeling safe contributed an enormous amount to my well being.

Don't feel embarrassed about this - you came to the UK with the best of intentions. I did exactly the same. And I was offered 3 interviews in my field in the space of a few weeks on my arrival - something I struggled to get in Ontario (and at the time I was too chicken to go to Alberta which, I'm now glad I didn't go as the economy there has tanked!). I also didn't (at the time) want to do yet another degree (which I needed to do to get work in Ontario - and which I am now doing this Fall). But the UK housing crisis means that unless you have 2 incomes or are extraordinarily wealthy or an extremely good salary or have family money, then you are going to struggle in private rental ... so really don't blame yourself - I can't emphasise that enough.

And as for not being able to take time out to be ill with depression ... well I got very very ill from the stress of trying to make ends meet and living in insecure rental housing with unpleasant landlords - and everyone I met through the almshouse and Quakers and the church understood. I wasn't even a member of that church and they helped me.

Some people get it - that things are extremely tough. But too few of the older generation do and the judgement they heap on people is horrible ... I had one smug 80 year old turn around to me and tell me scornfully that she didn't have any degrees but she'd always been able to feed herself ... words fail me. Turned out she'd bought her house years ago and she had a good pension and she was doing alright thank you very much. At the time I was trying so hard to get better and do all the things that the Dr told me to do - and it was really tough having comments like that thrown at me.

The smugness and self-centredness I came across in the older generation (aside from the Quakers and folks who helped me who worked in the churches and almshouse) astounded me. Part of my getting well involved me doing a lot of exercise (I got a GP exercise referral) and because I didn't have a lot of money and was trying to conserve my remaining savings (as I didn't qualify for any benefits) I joined some free walking groups. A lot of them had pensioners as members. While a few were kind, some people made comments which hurt me so much that I just had to stop going! The judgement and out of touch views astounded me. I can only hope that one day when they are more vulnerable they appreciate what it's like when you are trying to do your best and things don't work out.

And I completely hear you with respect to not wanting to work crazy hours with the care work - that's what I decided not to do because I knew I wanted a life. While things aren't easy here the absence of the levels of judgement that I experienced in the UK and the fact that people are kind and have helped out has helped enormously with settling back into Canada.

Do try following up with these UK organisations Maddie - the almshouse people in particular should be able to help you, especially if you are able to relocate within the UK (and the CAB may also be able to help you with that).

And you need to make a decision about your belongings in Montreal as soon as you can as well because 300 a month in storage is way too much to be paying if you are struggling in the UK. I moved with all my stuff to the UK but got rid of even more of it while I was there and moved back with only the absolute essentials ... and I'm okay with that. People matter far more than things and given that I may well have to move again for work once I've completed my Masters, travelling light seems to be the way to go.
Englishmaple

You really are a ray of sunshine for me today .Thank you so much for all your time and effort ,I will definitely follow through .
The one thing I have clearly learnt from all of this after dedicating my all life to helping other , people who have not really struggled or witnessed struggle on a regular basis ,dont get it . People need to realize you are either a part of the solution or a part of the problem.
Thank you again
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 6:16 pm
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

Originally Posted by NiHao
Oh Maddie,

I'm so sorry I can hear how depressed and beaten down you are by it all. Accommodation is very expensive in the UK and whilst two income families who have not stepped off the UK rent/house owning market can often come back and cope with the cost, for you coming back by yourself and having to rely on one income (when you can secure one) it has to be so difficult.

I've worked as a Nanny and you'd be surprised the hours etc. that can be negotiated. Yes, there are employers that want 6 day weeks and to "own" you but plenty where you only work 5 days.

I think it is completely understandable that you are feeling depressed and defeated. It's all been very stressful for you I'm sure any of us would have struggled in similar circumstances. Wish I could think of something more useful to say, hang in there and keep talking to us on here, someone is bound to come up with something you haven't thought of yet.
Thank you for caring , your and others reaching out as shown me some people do care at least .it helps me feel let alone and isolated .Thank you .
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Old Mar 28th 2016, 7:46 pm
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Default Re: Moving back biggest mistake

Originally Posted by maddie1959
Englishmaple

You really are a ray of sunshine for me today .Thank you so much for all your time and effort ,I will definitely follow through .
The one thing I have clearly learnt from all of this after dedicating my all life to helping other , people who have not really struggled or witnessed struggle on a regular basis ,dont get it . People need to realize you are either a part of the solution or a part of the problem.
Thank you again
Maddie I'm so glad I'm able to offer the help I can because when I was ill and things went pear shaped for me, I experienced a lot of negative unhelpful comments and judgement from people - so I completely get where you are coming from. And if someone else had told me what I'm telling you, I would have felt so much less of a failure - because I did feel a failure for a very long time and I really shouldn't have, especially given the fact that I have spent so much of my life helping people.

But there are, fortunately, still some good people in the world and I did receive some help from some kind folks in my community. The important thing is to reach out and ask for help. And if it's not forthcoming or you get met with judgment, remember it's not your issue, it's theirs - and move on and ask for help from someone else - not easy to do when you're feeling rotten though - and I know that from my own experience.

But I really want to emphasize to you that it's not you failing with respect to the current UK situation - it's very much the toxic culture that exists there at the moment. And people who haven't struggled just do not get it. Like you, I have spent almost the whole of my life helping others in agencies and organizations I've worked for and I've done a ton of volunteer work as well - so your sentiments re: if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem are so damn right.

I never ever thought I would end up in the situation I found myself in, in the UK. Never in a million years. Especially after all the help I've given others. To find myself on the receiving end and to be so sick and vulnerable in a culture that, at the moment, blames and undermines the vulnerable, was horrendous. I don't think the newspaper reporting helps. It's all blame the immigrants, blame the skivers, blame the benefit cheats ... I'm so glad to have left that toxic culture behind.

I do hope you have luck with the almshouses - my tiny bachelor was a sanctuary after what I went through and my health started to improve considerably once I knew I was "safe" - the trustees told me they would never make me homeless and I needed to hear that. It also made it hard to leave but where I was living, the main work opportunities were in low paid care work and the agencies only paid for the time you spent with the client, not the travel time which meant that you had to work much longer hours and often split shifts. I got to know a couple of people who did that work and I knew I could do it but I didn't want to be working long hours for not particularly great pay. And I really really could not face moving somewhere else for more professional work because I really didn't want to go back into the private rental sector - I'm convinced I would have got ill again because the insecurity and the stress of it is horrendous.

But having that safe space to get better and then to be able to make good decisions for myself really helped - and thats what you need at the moment - is a safe space to land and breathe and recover.

People, of course, work long hours for low pay here in Canada but there's more of an understanding of the toxic nature of structural inequality here than there is in the UK where it's very much focused on blame the individual. Plus a UK friend who lives here (and gave me hope when I contemplated moving back again) pointed out that people here do tend to help more - and I think that's true. While there is less of a welfare state in Canada, because of that, people tend to reach out more and help and do more charitable stuff. Whereas in the UK people who are comfortably off tend to be more concerned about what's on the TV! My UK friend lives up in the Toronto area and she's had a lot of help from people as she's been ill of late - this gives me hope. And I've certainly found people very helpful in the city I've moved back to. I'm just so grateful to be out of the UK. I would visit again but never move back until they have a different government and a different housing system.

The UK does have a few more benefits but they are cutting and cutting them and I found them incredibly difficult to access. I didn't qualify for PIP because I hadn't been back in the UK 2 years. I didn't qualify for ESA because I worked 5 months and 20 days in my job and you needed to have worked 5 months and 26 days before you could claim it! (I guess I should have planned my illness better, go figure!). I didn't qualify for JSA because I was in no fit state to work - my Dr insisted on seeing me every month from April onwards (I fell ill in March) and didn't sign me off to say I was well enough to work till December! And I didn't qualify for Housing Benefit because my remaining savings took me above the housing benefit threshold. I remember at one point thinking that if I was going to have to go to the homeless shelter I would go in with my head held high because I had done my very best to try to make things work ...

I also couldn't apply for council housing because my savings were above the housing benefit threshold, nevermind the crazy long waiting lists. My savings were money set aside for a pension or for a deposit to buy a house (ha! before I realised that was impossible!) so it wasn't like I was super rich or something. Basically I would have had to go through most of my savings and become almost destitute before the State would have stepped in ... it's a shameful situation. And nobody chooses to be ill. Being so ill and not having money come in meant I lost a large chunk of my savings but I didn't have any other choice sadly.

I went to the church for help with accommodation because I knew no one would want to rent a room to me when I was sick and not working - despite having savings - I have met so many unpleasant UK private landlords - in marked contrast to how things are conducted in Canada. I had such a hard time with my first landlord whom I rented a bedroom from for £460. He removed the thermostat and told me the heating wasn't going on until December! And the second landlord and letting agent took a huge chunk of my money when I rented a flat (he insisted on 6 months rent up front when I renewed my contract because I fell too ill to return to Canada - I could barely get out of bed at that point). When I left there, the rent was put up again ... it's utter madness.

The almshouse people were, by contrast, lovely. As were the CAB people. And because I was so ill, my Dr helped too - she wrote a letter in support of my almshouse application. So there are some good people out there - just ignore the ignorant judgmental ones - because they really don't get it.

Good luck Maddie - don't lose heart.
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