Originally Posted by keithBT

Mike, I've just rewritten to your PM box.

Originally Posted by MikeJ

Thanks Keith - received and replied

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl

Hi please can you pm me the info on the gutters please.

We have had a (lets say) very 'unsatisfactory' gutter installation and communication process in our manzana. So I'd like to hear other feedback.

Re caretakers I think having a good caretaker is like gold dust the M7 & M6 caretakers are excellent, & are worth paying a good price for. I dont know the others.

I have mixed feelings about Gesprosur, I've met the boss to discuss customer satisfaction - was made promises that haven't been honoured. BUT I dont believe changing for possibly a cheaper company will be a good idea, and agree with Mike on that. Gesprosur win for me, mainly as they have recruited great caretakers in our Manzana and M7. This is the main 'interface' for me - the rest is administration, and though it is not always satisfactory, I suspect its the best we can get. "Better the devil you know"

After over a decade in Spain, I also have no faith in choosing & giving business to any company who is a member of someone's family or a friend of someone etc.

So I am, in the end, all things considered willing to stick with Gesprosur.

Jon

Originally Posted by keithBT

WOW, THE MINUTES OF THE m3 AGM HAVE JUST ARRIVED, via MM abogados.
I am seriously trying to understand them, but the translation they used to english does not make a whole lot of sense. In essence, I think we have a new pres & vice pres and a company in Huelva controlling it all. It was overwhelmingly voted IN by 21 - 0, so my presence would have made no difference. Perhaps those of us on M3 need to have an open mind and hope that it is for the best. Only time will tell.

Originally Posted by keithBT

Hi Jon, I will forward the PM I sent to Mike. I had no idea there was a move to oust Gesprosur as our estate managers. I am not happy with the situation, but if you do not attend the agm's then you can't complain too much either. I bought my duplex to use any time of year EXCEPT high season, and unfortunately our agm seems to be August every year. I'm afraid Ayamonte is way too busy for me in high season, too many people & nowhere to park. I did try August in 2014 and it just doesn't suit me. Too many people around / in the pool and quite noisy. Having achieved UK state retirement age, I just want a bit of warmth, good food, a good book and peace & quiet. I'm very able at doing very little whilst at ME as I still live quite a busy life in the UK. Too have to venture thru Faro airport in August just for an agm would not be something I would enjoy.

Originally Posted by keithBT

Thanks to Mike who has summed this saga up most eloquently. Hopefully, the remaining manzanas might elect for a more cost effective job as described by Mike trialing a network plastic downpipes. The only problem is that this would be quite cheap, hence not much profit for the installer. I've seen all this before in industry.

Originally Posted by MikeJ

I’ll try not to be contentious but you have asked for opinions and I assume you mean ‘warts and all’

Not quite sure what you are blaming on Gesprosur – they administer the Manzana on behalf of the owners; directed on a day-to-day basis by the community President. If you are paying €1000 pm to your gardener then that is because the community decided to do that (by agreeing to the budget presented at the AGM). If you wanted to pay more or less then that is when it should have been raised and changed. IMHO €1000 is not a great wage when you take out social security payments, tax etc.

In our Manzana, we pay a bit more than that for a dedicated concierge service. Our concierge has been with us for a number of years and has proved himself invaluable. He does an awful lot more than just gardening.
[BTW if you mow much more than an inch off the Spanish grass type you will expose the tender shoots to the hot sun which will burn them and kill them off and very soon you will have a waste ground. Little and often is the best bet. You cannot expect a bowling green lawn]

At one time there was a movement towards getting a cheaper solution. Some residents proposed (a friend from Huelva) to take over the management. On further inquiries, it transpired that the services would be provided by ad-hoc contractors on what we in the UK would recognise as a zero hours contracts. The implication was that we would have a series of nameless people having intimate access to the Manzana. Many of us thought that this was a severe security risk and had doubts about the quality of service we would actually get. We were happier with the continuity of a well-known and trusted employee on a decent contract which provides him with a living wage and a degree of loyalty in return. The work he does keeping the environment maintained is protecting our investment (who wants to buy a beautiful apartment if it is set in the middle of a waste land).

In the early days and in the period around the collapse of Fedesa the community charge was set at a level needed to support the community based on the number of owners. A little while later it became technically feasible to reduce the charge. At that time it was decided by the majority to keep the charge more or less as it was. This incremental amount which nobody really missed has allowed a contingency fund to be built up. The parable of the ant and the grasshopper springs to mind . This fund has allowed us to commission a number of improvements to the Manzana, including the complete repaint; relining of the pool; improvement of the pool filtration which will improve hygiene and reduce running costs in the longer term; landscaping and new planting which generally improves the attractiveness – and our enjoyment – of our Manzana, Next year we will be installing improved guttering and drainage. All this without having to make extraordinary increases in the community charge.

ISTM that Gesprosur is being blamed for the management failures of the community or bad or short term decisions in the past. You may be throwing the baby out with the bath water. I have no particular brief for Gesprosur but our Manzana has experience of the main management protagonists and effectively carried out a competitive tender to choose Gesprosur (based on value, not just cost) and they have performed well since then. It is telling that 5 of the 7 Manzanas and the Intercommunity are administered by Gesprosur. You may get cheaper but I suspect you are unlikely to get better - simple economics says that you get what you pay for (as long as you manage it !)

Originally Posted by keithBT

I need to correct my earlier post on the 14th sept where I stated we pay 1000 euros a month for seemingly not very much for the gardener. It has been brought to my attention by PM that this was 2015 figures. M3 manzana has actually been paying 1550 euros in the summer months and 1200 in the winter months. Hence my consideration that it was poor value for what we received was worse than originally thought. Being a smaller manzana compared to M1,2,6 & 7 it would be difficult to justify a full time concierge but in retrospect I wish we could have shared a full time concierge with say m5 had this been possible. Again, in retrospect, it does not now surprise me that the Spanish owners got together and had a coup. It is just possible they were right.