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Old Mar 15th 2015, 3:06 pm   #1
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Default Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

We are a migrant family living in London. We have British passports and our total salary before tax is nearly £100,000. We think we have a rather good life here.

However, as first-generation migrants, we guess it is difficult for us to move higher in British society. We hope our children can do better.

A friend from Australia suggested we move to Sydney or Melbourne. Of course, the first thing is we have to find jobs there first.

But in general, do you think it is better for a migrant family to move from London to Sydney or Melbourne? Below are some assumptions:

- The competition in London, or UK in general, is much more fiercer than in Australia. So your children, provided that they are well educated, may find it easier to get to the top of Australia's society. Having said that, a friend said racial discrimination against non-white people is more serious in Australia.

- For the same money, you may have better homes in Australia

- Life in Australia may be more relaxing, even in main cities like Sydney or Melbourne.

What do you think? Your advice is greatly appreciated.
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Old Mar 15th 2015, 3:48 pm   #2
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

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Originally Posted by troioitroi View Post
We are a migrant family living in London. We have British passports and our total salary before tax is nearly £100,000. We think we have a rather good life here.

However, as first-generation migrants, we guess it is difficult for us to move higher in British society. We hope our children can do better.

A friend from Australia suggested we move to Sydney or Melbourne. Of course, the first thing is we have to find jobs there first.

But in general, do you think it is better for a migrant family to move from London to Sydney or Melbourne? Below are some assumptions:

- The competition in London, or UK in general, is much more fiercer than in Australia. So your children, provided that they are well educated, may find it easier to get to the top of Australia's society. Having said that, a friend said racial discrimination against non-white people is more serious in Australia.

- For the same money, you may have better homes in Australia

- Life in Australia may be more relaxing, even in main cities like Sydney or Melbourne.

What do you think? Your advice is greatly appreciated.
I don't understand what you mean by 'moving higher/getting to the top of society'?

My advice is do your own credible research on the areas/issues that are important to you, rather than anticipating problems or rewards based on what 'a friend said'.
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Old Mar 15th 2015, 4:37 pm   #3
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

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Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
I don't understand what you mean by 'moving higher/getting to the top of society'?

My advice is do your own credible research on the areas/issues that are important to you, rather than anticipating problems or rewards based on what 'a friend said'.
+1.

In addition, the OP says " Life in Australia may be more relaxing," ..... I tink the majority of posters on here would argue with that.

Its life. You work, go home, sleep, get up, go to work........as the saying goes, same brown stuff, different bucket.
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Old Mar 15th 2015, 9:28 pm   #4
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

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Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
I don't understand what you mean by 'moving higher/getting to the top of society'?

My advice is do your own credible research on the areas/issues that are important to you, rather than anticipating problems or rewards based on what 'a friend said'.
I don't get it either. Not getting to top of society then blaming it on your background.

Like the UK, in Australia you are the master of your own destiny. If you make excuses for not then perhaps the problem lies with the individual and not the country.
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Old Mar 15th 2015, 10:36 pm   #5
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

What do you mean "get to the top of society"? Become Queen or Prime Minister? Doctor? Lawyer? Millionaire? What?

If your kids work hard and do the right things they can make the most of their lives in either first world country. Australia is going to be no easier or harder. Whether they make it to "top of society" is anyone's guess.

First question I guess would be - can you get a visa? Then, can you find a job that's going to give you an equivalent standard of living - probably more difficult given your current professed income.
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Old Mar 15th 2015, 10:50 pm   #6
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

Nearly everyone on the site is a 'migrant family'. You will be no more or less special because of where you originate from.

However, Australia can get very hot, if it were me, I'd lighten the load by removing all those tickets I had on myself.
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Old Mar 15th 2015, 10:51 pm   #7
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

Thank you for your frank opinion.

Regarding 'getting to the top of the society', it has been well documented that UK society is becoming ever more class ridden. The 7% of privately educated children are destined to wield a disproportionately high amount of influence in later life. For example, last year a report said more than 40% of the most influential people in Britain went to independent school. The Debrett’s 500 also found that around a fifth of people on the list, which is split into 24 categories, attended grammar schools, leaving just over a third who attended comprehensives.

Debrett’s chief executive Joanne Milner said: “Sadly, all the figures show that Britain is becoming less meritocratic. As a young person growing up in Britain today, you have a far greater chance of succeeding if you come from a privileged background and have inherited a rich social capital.”

That's why we think our children would be better off if we can afford private schools or if they're competitive enough for grammar schools.

I was wondering if it is any different in Australia.
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Old Mar 15th 2015, 11:45 pm   #8
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

I don't think its as clear cut as that mate. It sounds like you are bright and hard working and no doubt will pass these traits on to your children too. They are just as likely to succeed there as anywhere else.

I would just do what makes you happy. Happiness is the greatest success of all.
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Old Mar 16th 2015, 12:17 am   #9
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

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Originally Posted by troioitroi View Post
Thank you for your frank opinion.

Regarding 'getting to the top of the society', it has been well documented that UK society is becoming ever more class ridden. The 7% of privately educated children are destined to wield a disproportionately high amount of influence in later life. For example, last year a report said more than 40% of the most influential people in Britain went to independent school. The Debrett’s 500 also found that around a fifth of people on the list, which is split into 24 categories, attended grammar schools, leaving just over a third who attended comprehensives.

Debrett’s chief executive Joanne Milner said: “Sadly, all the figures show that Britain is becoming less meritocratic. As a young person growing up in Britain today, you have a far greater chance of succeeding if you come from a privileged background and have inherited a rich social capital.”

That's why we think our children would be better off if we can afford private schools or if they're competitive enough for grammar schools.

I was wondering if it is any different in Australia.
Can you show me this report?

Well one would hope that those who have attended private schools have a better chance of succeeding otherwise what's the point in spending the extra money to be privately schooled.

It doesn't mean that those who don't can't succeed either.

Sounds like there's a lot of resentment there. For someone you has migrated once before which takes a great deal of effort, you seem to be putting a lot of excuses and obstacles in the what you define a success.
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Old Mar 16th 2015, 4:52 am   #10
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

A rather good life in London as you state there is little reason to move. Australia can be hard without local experience and as for education both places are fine.

Racism is not the issue it once was especially in the cities that are yearly becoming ever more multi racial. It can be an advantage in certain areas a number claim.

Main thing being why give up a good life in London , one of the worlds premier cities for the possibility that things may be on similar terms over here?

Come over and take a look if you must, but I wouldn't rush into moving over on the off chance.
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Old Mar 16th 2015, 5:48 am   #11
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

Yes because Australia is a such a classless society with cheap private schools lol!
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Old Mar 16th 2015, 6:59 am   #12
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

Just moved to Melbourne, ( Previously QLD, but kids at UNI in melbourne ). Its not less stressful, competitive or classless than anywhere else.

It may be slightly less hectic than Sydney, but after a month we took the house off the market in QLD, and decided to keep it as a holiday retreat from city life.

The private school, housing snobbery, housing robbery as in prices and break ins is alive and well, as is the worst traffic, which seems to encompass a 5 hour spell morning and evening.

With regard to getting to the top of society, Melbourne as Sydney has very race/class defined areas. Brisbane to a lesser degree. Competion for top schools in all of them is just like UK, name at birth, who you know, and how much you have.

To be quite honest if you want the relaxed, big fish in small pond deal, try somewhere like Sunshine coast, so relaxed and beautiful, unpolluted, little traffic. Set up your own business, get kids into top school, pick a street full of Doctors and Lawyers and pilots, the elite bits are easy to find. Far less competitive than Australian cities which are overcrowded, crammed full of locals and migrants trying to get to the top of the rat race.

IF going to the cities, bring a big wedge of cash so you can avoid the Bogan/Yobbo/crime/drug areas, there are some awful areas/people here just as there are anywhere. Good school areas etc will attract fierce bidding and silly prices for even old dump houses, same as UK really then.
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Old Mar 16th 2015, 7:33 am   #13
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

Dunno, I think 2/3 of the group going either to Comprehensives or Grammars is pretty good - shows that if you've got the brains and the dedication then you don't need private education although of course you'd expect private school kids to have an edge otherwise why would parents beggar themselves for the privilege.

I don't think there would be too many aiming to get their kids into Debrett's top 500 (what a weird ambition!) when it's quite possible to be happy, productive, comfortable and useful well outside that 500.

An alternative of course might be for you to get the kids their UK education and use that as a stepping stone to get to the top of the society from whence you came - just a thought, if being at the top and wielding power is your goal.

Australia is just another first world country and just as class ridden, very much the "Old Boy" network - more than UK in my experience.
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Old Mar 16th 2015, 9:11 am   #14
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by troioitroi View Post
Thank you for your frank opinion.

Regarding 'getting to the top of the society', it has been well documented that UK society is becoming ever more class ridden. The 7% of privately educated children are destined to wield a disproportionately high amount of influence in later life. For example, last year a report said more than 40% of the most influential people in Britain went to independent school. The Debrett’s 500 also found that around a fifth of people on the list, which is split into 24 categories, attended grammar schools, leaving just over a third who attended comprehensives.

Debrett’s chief executive Joanne Milner said: “Sadly, all the figures show that Britain is becoming less meritocratic. As a young person growing up in Britain today, you have a far greater chance of succeeding if you come from a privileged background and have inherited a rich social capital.”

That's why we think our children would be better off if we can afford private schools or if they're competitive enough for grammar schools.

I was wondering if it is any different in Australia.
id be very interested to know where you migrated from, must've been absolute Utopia if the country that took you in and gives an 'nice' £100k lifestyle is suddenly not good enough due to it being a class ridden craphole.

That quote from Debrett's is laughable, so this 'CEO' concludes that to you'll have a better chance of success in life if you come from successful family with money. Brilliant, absolutely insightful insert any country in the place where she has written 'Britain' and see how it works there. Wow, it's like like some sort of magic!

I don't think the OP is looking to migrate, I think they are looking for a class war debate.

4/10
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Old Mar 16th 2015, 10:21 am   #15
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Default Re: Would you advise a migrant family to move from London to Sydney/Melbourne?

Hi all, I appreciate your advice, even brutal and honest one. But this is a genuine query. I am not interested in opening a heated debate for its own sake.

Perhaps I was naïve to think Australia is inherently easier than England. But pls understand that here, the media, and my own circles, keep saying how Britain is still a class-ridden society, private schools matter, etc. As a columnist in the Guardian said lately:

“The answer is that social mobility remained at its slow pre-industrial pace. Status persists as strongly in the Cameron meritocracy as in pre-industrial England. Lineage is destiny. At birth, most of your social outcome is predictable from your family history.

An illustration of the power of lineage even in modern England comes even from the first names children receive at birth. Naming your daughter Jade means she has one hundredth the chance of attending Oxford as a girl whose parents chose for her Eleanor. Similarly for Bradley versus Peter.”

Social mobility barely exists. So don’t expect it to solve inequality | Gregory Clark | Comment is free | The Guardian

That is why I wondered Australia can offer better opportunities for migrants, ‘outsiders’. I might be naïve, but that does not mean it is not worth asking.
Thanks,
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