Work ethic
#16
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 629
Re: Work ethic
Back here in Oz he is begging me to allow him to give up work - he hates it so much!!!
#17
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 42
Re: Work ethic
Well I'm expecting to get friendly abuse anyway - been to Australia enough times (on holiday) and have enough Australian friends here in London. I didn't think they'd single Poms out at work, so good to have that confirmed.
I do to - and thank you for them all.
Agree 100%. I actually immigrated from South Africa to the UK about 18 years ago and I've never understood people who spend forever looking back and saying "but when we lived in xxx life was so fantastic". Always been of the opinion that you should appreciate where you live for what it is. If you don't like it then move.
I think you have received quite a few good replies.
don't give them the "in the UK we did it like this" type of attitude
#19
Re: Work ethic
Well I'm expecting to get friendly abuse anyway - been to Australia enough times (on holiday) and have enough Australian friends here in London. I didn't think they'd single Poms out at work, so good to have that confirmed.
I do to - and thank you for them all.
Agree 100%. I actually immigrated from South Africa to the UK about 18 years ago and I've never understood people who spend forever looking back and saying "but when we lived in xxx life was so fantastic". Always been of the opinion that you should appreciate where you live for what it is. If you don't like it then move.
I do to - and thank you for them all.
Agree 100%. I actually immigrated from South Africa to the UK about 18 years ago and I've never understood people who spend forever looking back and saying "but when we lived in xxx life was so fantastic". Always been of the opinion that you should appreciate where you live for what it is. If you don't like it then move.
Anyway, I too am an IT Consultant working in Brisbane (mainly), for the same company I worked for in the UK. Other than the name, the similarities between the two companies are few.
I was recently at a training event in the City which required some role-play (easy tiger ). The head of our team decided to call us "Queensland Cowboy Consultants" which I though was pretty apt.
In the UK, I was used to working on multi-million UK Govt projects which lasted for years. Here, it's chicken-5h1t deals which last a few months. I'm not sure whether this is the same for all IT companies in Brisbane though.
The way the company treats people is pretty shocking but thankfully I've largely been removed from all those shenanigans as I've been actively engaged on customer sites since I arrived.
Whilst I feel remuneration is fairly competitive, benefits and flexibility offerings are poor.
I find that though I'm not working excessive hours, I do seem to have considerably less time to myself than in the UK and arriving home each night in the dark is pretty meh
I crave a job which will offer me the same salary but with flexible working options so that I can at least take a day off every now and again to enjoy the sunshine and do something outdoors during the week
Our annual leave entitlement is 20 days plus public holidays. I gather it's usual for the company to expect you to take 2 weeks off over the Xmas break/shutdown, which is a big problem for me as I prefer to stagger my holidays over the year when I feel I need a break. It's also a big problem if you want to take any trips back to the UK, unless you're willing to take unpaid leave.
I'd like to know if this is the norm in Brisbane/Australia as the concept seems a little out-of-date to me
I'd like to think I could tolerate the situation for the next 18 months when we plan to return to the UK, though I may find myself looking for something which allows me a better work-life balance in the meantime
Good luck with everything
#20
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,809
Re: Work ethic
Well you'll get decent hours but can you handle constant pointless meetings and committees, heavy duty internal politics usually accompanied by lots of backstabbing (particularly if you are any good at your job LOL!), bureaucracy to the degree that means you can never actually get anything done, incompetent staff that would be out on their ear if they worked in the "real world" and so on and so on. Obviously I realise that not all govt. is like this but can you tell I hated it?!!
#21
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Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Epsom
Posts: 1,705
Re: Work ethic
I have worked previously in Australia 8 years ago, in IT as an architect. The last 8 years have been spent in the UK.
When I moved to the UK I found the working environment to be incredibly political compared to Australia, and things just never got done. It was a big culture of 'No, you can't that', as opposed to a more pragmatic 'can do' attitude in Australia.
I still find that today, the same attitude amongst Kiwis and Aussies working in London makes them stand out and above many of their British counterparts.
In the UK they seem to be a lot keener on home-working and being flexible, maybe things have changed in Aus but it was always a culture of being seen at your desk, being in before the boss and leaving after him, if you wanted to get ahead. Of course it does depend on the company.
My personal experience was that in Australia I could shine easily and be regarded as one of the best at my job, in the UK I was on a more level playing field and it was more competitive. What I'm trying to say is that many people in IT Australia just don't seem to be the smartest or most ambitious people, they get in their job and stick with it. The majority of people I keep in touch with are still in the same position, in the same company 8 years later. Having said that it does seem though in the UK there are a lot more cowboys, or people that have blagged their way in the industry.
Many Australians are also very naive and ignorant of the big picture.
As for project management - is there anywhere that it is done correctly? In the UK they are probably too top heavy in regards to this and waste far too much money.
When I moved to the UK I found the working environment to be incredibly political compared to Australia, and things just never got done. It was a big culture of 'No, you can't that', as opposed to a more pragmatic 'can do' attitude in Australia.
I still find that today, the same attitude amongst Kiwis and Aussies working in London makes them stand out and above many of their British counterparts.
In the UK they seem to be a lot keener on home-working and being flexible, maybe things have changed in Aus but it was always a culture of being seen at your desk, being in before the boss and leaving after him, if you wanted to get ahead. Of course it does depend on the company.
My personal experience was that in Australia I could shine easily and be regarded as one of the best at my job, in the UK I was on a more level playing field and it was more competitive. What I'm trying to say is that many people in IT Australia just don't seem to be the smartest or most ambitious people, they get in their job and stick with it. The majority of people I keep in touch with are still in the same position, in the same company 8 years later. Having said that it does seem though in the UK there are a lot more cowboys, or people that have blagged their way in the industry.
Many Australians are also very naive and ignorant of the big picture.
As for project management - is there anywhere that it is done correctly? In the UK they are probably too top heavy in regards to this and waste far too much money.
#22
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 42
Re: Work ethic
When I moved to the UK I found the working environment to be incredibly political compared to Australia, and things just never got done. It was a big culture of 'No, you can't that', as opposed to a more pragmatic 'can do' attitude in Australia.
tictac - thanks for that summary. A really useful overview from the consulting perspective. I was previously employed with one of the big 5 here in London and my skillset sets me up pretty strongly for consulting, so a Brisbane consultancy is definitely on the list as a potential employer. However, I'd really prefer to get something with a better work/life balance if possible.
#24
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Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 62
Re: Work ethic
I agree with this but as an Aussie myself I love the fact that you can have this break over the Christmas/New Year period. Many Aussies I know love a job that gives you this holiday break option, its a great time to go on leave, its Summer and also school holiday time..........I have changed jobs in the past to work for an employer who offers this option. Much sought after leave period her in Australia Im afraid and not usually considered a 'negative' thing.
#25
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Joined: May 2005
Location: Mornington
Posts: 1,650
Re: Work ethic
I agree with this but as an Aussie myself I love the fact that you can have this break over the Christmas/New Year period. Many Aussies I know love a job that gives you this holiday break option, its a great time to go on leave, its Summer and also school holiday time..........I have changed jobs in the past to work for an employer who offers this option. Much sought after leave period her in Australia Im afraid and not usually considered a 'negative' thing.
This is good if you have kids, but we don't. We always try to take our holidays outside of the school breaks to avoid the little buggers
My firm doesn't have the christmas shutdown and I love working that period. The roads are quiet and it is a relaxed couple of weeks.
John
#26
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Work ethic
Four years in Qld Govt, and I would tend to agree, meetings, esp at higher levels, that can drive you mad, internal politics rules the place and the backstabbing is rife - not against poms, but just in general. Lots of poms in my department and to be honest we are treated the same as everyone else. Having said that, if you found a job in the govt that suits you, and you can deal with the political machinations, then go for it The lower levels are much easier than the higher ones - the scheming and plotting and constant meetings increase as you go up the tree.
People criticise IT for many reasons, but you tend to get fairly well compensated and can think for yourself and change policy just by suggesting it.
This thread tells me alot of this is about the person, the position and the job. There are many good Aussies doing well in London, and many good Brits doing well in Australia. There will always be average people and poor practises everywhere, and people earning a crust!
I work 0730-330 but tend to do 0730-415. I do long hours (a team thing) a month or so a year.
Last edited by BadgeIsBack; Jul 19th 2008 at 2:10 am.
#27
Re: Work ethic
Four years in Qld Govt, and I would tend to agree, meetings, esp at higher levels, that can drive you mad, internal politics rules the place and the backstabbing is rife - not against poms, but just in general. Lots of poms in my department and to be honest we are treated the same as everyone else. Having said that, if you found a job in the govt that suits you, and you can deal with the political machinations, then go for it The lower levels are much easier than the higher ones - the scheming and plotting and constant meetings increase as you go up the tree.
That is no difference to gov jobs here in UK in mngt.. albeit the backstabbing sounds a little more controlled though ie they do it from the front instead of behind your back.
#28
Re: Work ethic
I agree with this but as an Aussie myself I love the fact that you can have this break over the Christmas/New Year period. Many Aussies I know love a job that gives you this holiday break option, its a great time to go on leave, its Summer and also school holiday time..........I have changed jobs in the past to work for an employer who offers this option. Much sought after leave period her in Australia Im afraid and not usually considered a 'negative' thing.
#29
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,809
Re: Work ethic
Exactly. I'm OK this year as I'm now on shift work, which continues regardless of Christmas etc, but for the last few years I've found it really annoying. I don't want time off at Christmas, I've always been happy working it in the uK, but here there is an enforced shutdown, like it or not.