stevereed

Context plays a big part, but unless the 'receiver' can display startling degrees of telepathy the intention may not be clear :-)

The remarks in this thread do seem to be heavily geared towards the person making the remark. I really think it is the person to whom it is directed that is the important issue and how they feel. Why risk upsetting people over pointless stereotyping.

I get a strong feeling that however long this thread continues (and it's done pretty well in a few days) most of us are fairly entrenched in our views. I certainly feel no need to budge as I'm not a user of such words. I think we're going to have to live and let live.............but try to respect everyone (until they give you a reason not to)

Badge

Indeed its all about social awareness but you don't have to be a mind reader to establish intent, in fact in some circles you would probably be considered socially inept if you couldn't figure it. When using Pom etc it is assumed that the receiver has got the nouse to realise its in jest etc...for me, and maybe I am lucky, when aussies call me a Pom 99pc of the time I know its because they have taken a liking to me so I don't knock it. If they meant it in a negative way, then I know I was not liked and should brush up on the social skills in the first place. I probably earnt my tag.

BM

tonyk38

I found be referred to as a Pom absolutely no problem at all when I was in Aus. In the same way that being called a b**tard was also a complement.

Maybe 'Pom' is an insult in certain contexts. I've yet to experience it however.

stevereed

Fair points. My issue on this is not necessarily what the person saying it means or doesn't mean, but the historical usage of many words gives them a context which is not always pleasant. For example, you could argue that the term 'paki' is just a shortening of pakistani (and indeed at least one guy has reclaimed the word for his own clothing label), but the historical useage has been blatantly offensive and derogatory nad it is that which makes it wrong to use such words. The terms Aussie and Yank do not appear to have been used in the same way, although there's probably plenty who don't like those terms either.

Intent is also shown by facial expression, tonality, body language etc, and the outright bigot will probably demonstrate this quite openly, but I just feel it's dodgy ground to risk upsetting people for no real reason. It's not that i'm worried about the legal implications, or chances of getting a battering, it's more to do with treating people as individuals, based on their merits. We all have backgrounds and cultures etc, and should be proud of them, but this is a world of individuals, all different but equally entitled to basic respect.

Badge, were you in the UK fire service by chance????

Badge

Steve, you are right. There are words that are stronger than others, and accordingly you must dance more cautiously. The intent you mention is often signalled, as you say, by many things other than use of the word - which goes some way to offset potential problems of mind reading.

No I am not a firie, but I will be trg to be one here soon.

BM

stevereed

The mindreading skills would indeed be useful.

I saw one of your posts about joining the local fire station, hence my question. When I finally get out there I'll probably give it a go in some shape or form. I'm leaving a UK brigade after 16 years, quite happily, but I reckon the desire may resurface in the future.

Cheers

Steve

Badge

I did not say that mindreading skills would be useful..:-) and I think you imply I do...(who cares? who's interested? - you Sir, at the back?!...)

If you will allow, I am immensely gratified that a firie could so stauchly defend sensitivity...I know I am stereotyping but I'm sure you know where I am coming from...

BM

stevereed

No. you misread my context.......or I failed to show it :-)

I do know where you're coming from in you kind? comments at the end.

I wouldn't say I was unique in my opinions as far as firefighters go....but you may struggle a little to fill a mini with us. I jest.

I can also be a little insensitive at times. But I've been brought up in family where those words weren't used. No political correctness there, just the way it was. Learned behaviour also plays an important role in the importance, or lack of it that people attach to what they say and do. Many a wife beater has seen it all before in the family home as a child. That's not defending it, but we learn our behaviour from somewhere I reckon.

I'm not trying to preach, I just love a good debate on an issue that I feel strongly about, and this has been a good source of entertainment as well as a most informative exercise.

bondipom

Not derogatory?

There are poms who find the term pommie irritating as it labels them when they just want to get on with their new lives. Having comments dismissed because you are a whinging "pommie %anker" gets annoying.

Siren & Brian

If your comments are being dismissed because you are a whinging "pommie %anker" maybe the adjectives you should be focusing on are

whinging and %anker

NOT pommie, 'cause that one only describes where your from, whereas the other 2 are telling you that your a whiny b@stard.

Of the three word there, pommie is only one that isn't insulting... I must be missing your point.

bondipom

My point is the use of the language to dismiss legitimate points in a flippant and derogatory manner is irritating. Not difficult to understand Mr Rolleyes. Context is important not my nationality. Why did pommie have to even come into the sentence. The implication of the abuser was that all poms whine and are wankers. Luckily where I work that attitude is held by the losers going nowhere.

That use of the term Pom has tainted it for me.

stevereed

I agree. A regularly used insult involves calling someone a 'black ba****rd'. The 'black' bit on it's own is obviously not insulting, but to couple the two words together makes it grossly offensive. It implies that the two words are inextricably linked and is in my opinion outrageous language to use. Someone may be a lot of things, but their ethnicity plays no part in it.

Siren & Brian

If your nationality is not important than why get upset when someone points it out? Are you seriously indignant about the perceived insult to all Brits at the time, or just pissed because someone called you a whinging w@nker? You assume that they mean it (the pom bit) as an aditional insult but that perception comes only from you and your feelings about yourself.

Often people feel like they may have been slighted when it wasn't so at all simply because of their own insecurities.

I just find it hard to justify removing a word (or several) from the language in it's entirety simply because someone, somewhere may use it in an offensive manner.

Let's all go back to preschool together now
"Sticks and stones may break my bones....."

Siren

Vegemite Kids

was back in scotland a few years ago visiting Chris's family and had convesation involving the fact that all "foreigners" should be sent back to where they belong. When I pointed out that I was also a "foreigner" (even though I have a scottish type accent) and found their comments offensive I got the answer "well obviously I dont mean people like you" :scared:

stevereed

If we're talking in in a legal sense, then it is how the words were perceived by the recipinet, and not how they were intended by the deliverer. As for sticks and stones etc, are you aware of the number of kids who have committed suicide after bullying at school, plenty of this without physical attack. So mental torment is as damaging as physical violence for many.

Let's not underestimate the power of words !!!!!!!!!