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Why the difference...

Why the difference...

Old Jun 18th 2008, 9:12 am
  #91  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
And when did "causality" become a word ???
LOL....is it in this list - if its not, it should be!?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7457287.stm
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Old Jun 18th 2008, 9:42 am
  #92  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by sonlymewalter
You can't judge by speaking to an exclusive / small sample size of undergrads on a train. The "poor sods on the train" do not represent a whole marketing population. This is not a great sample in statistical terms

Well, I can't sample the whole population but I can take all the anecdotal evidence I have available to me. And I'm sure some people would be happy my limited sample appears to match their experiences..

Originally Posted by sonlymewalter
So people complain about the work ethics over here? Perhaps that's telling us something
We might never know because noone ever tells us exactly. Noone I work with complains about their work situation other than the usual. Noone I know in my industry complains about ethics infact we have to comply and undertake ethics training once a year (that's popular!) and the board tracks each division accordingly on compliance. It's a bit of a joke but it's important to someone. But that's just detail.

What I do know is that, in the 5 years I have been on this forum, where people I have never met *have* complained, alot of the complaints about the office frankly appear to be largely based on politics and water cooler antics the very stuff that I hear on said train. People have even complained about the organisation and format of morning tea. Often the grievances relate to jobs where there is alot of competition for specific roles.

I experienced exactly this sort of thing in a job in the UK and it is often related to job type and sector hence why I wonder exactly what the jobs people are doing.

People do occasionally talk about practises but the person never says if they are a CEO talking about strategy, a middle manager or someone who has been asked to maintain a spreadsheet in 97 when they'd rather use 2000....(etc) or rightly peeved about the unfavourable maternity benefits contrasted with European ones.

I also know migrants who start off in unfavourable positions because they want a job - and the employer wants new meat - but then use that job as a launchpad to better things.

I am happy to accept from an expert that technically Australian office conditions could be found wanting but haven't suffered myself.

cheers

Last edited by BadgeIsBack; Jun 18th 2008 at 9:45 am.
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Old Jun 18th 2008, 10:21 am
  #93  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
Good idea.

And when did "causality" become a word ???

Buzzy
I guess Aristotle invented it....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality
I'm just the messenger....
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Old Jun 18th 2008, 10:25 am
  #94  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
Good idea.

And when did "causality" become a word ???

Buzzy
Dunno, ask Aristotle.
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Old Jun 18th 2008, 10:26 am
  #95  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by sonlymewalter
Yep, you're spot on Hutch. That's what I do too. I offer a service outside of the *norm* and some things that I suggest which are second nature to management practices in Europe and UK are seen as *revolutionary* here.
:
Mate I'm not stalking you, I promise you.

You may be right here and I take your word for it. There have been a fair few service sector professionals who say this kind of thing but they keep the details to themselves - I expect as they are in business like everyone else. I don't know if the service is mgmt consulting or fixing PCs out of hours or delivering bespoke Indian lunches to office buildings.

Originally Posted by sonlymewalter
This measn in the main companies treat people / the workforce with value and respect and the relationship between an employer & employee is one of joint venture.
Well there are plenty of Australian organisations who now take this very seriously. Mine (yet bizarrely they need not bother as most people are professional and don't need to be told). Some people will tell you that Australia is more of a nanny state than the UK. Plenty of people in the Country Fire Authority talk about "EO" (often in jest but the point is made). And Health and Safety certainly values the employee. We got sent home (sorry were invited to) when the ac broke and the temp climbed to over 25.

Originally Posted by sonlymewalter
In Aus, it's like the UK was before the change. The workforce is deemed as a disposable asset.
This is employment law which I guess is another area under ethics - dependant on your viewpoint. Wasn't Labour elected by some to get rid of workchoices? Not all companies used them. Another reason why I say job is so important. You can look at sector too. For years tradies came here and seemed to lord it and even said this country was tailormade for the sole proprietor and ute. Now many don't like the terms they get.
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Old Jun 18th 2008, 10:46 am
  #96  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

For us,emigrating seems to be a family trait. My nan did it, my mum did it, I did it, i seem to be the only one who's gonna do it twice, though And none of us has returned 'home', or moaned about it, we just got on with life. We all married foreigners and gave the kids their dad's citizenship. I have a daughter and I gave birth to her in the UK, I'm shipping her over to oz in a couple of years, I'm curious where will she go from there, considering her family pretty much exhausted europe(No, we're not travellers, life just turned out this way).
So from this perspective, comparing life in this or that country is a bit of a waste of time. I found it hard to adapt to the english life, I had an absolutely miserable first year, food tasted weird, the people were 'funny' with their family visits twice a year, my accent is still crap, but i'm certainly not an outsider anymore. People will always laugh when I say golden bennett and *ollocks with a latin accent, it works every time!
Partially due to the swear words, the green, the shops and the politeness I have integrated here, my OH swears blind I'm more british than the brits and I even aquired the south of england obligatory pearl studs.
I thought of it all as an adventure. What I liked, i took, what I didn't like, I brushed aside and put on my russian/polish accent: me don't undeRRRstand, me fRRom stRRRange countRRRRy. But generally i have learnt a great deal, had fun. It enriched me, and gave me life experiences that made me who I am today, ie a marvellous, mature woman, who can't wait to see lots of sun again. I seem to have married a man i deserve, as we're moving over to oz cause the roads aren't big, long, exciting enough for my OH's '3rd girl', a yamaha. But part of my will always be british, apart from a passport and two brits in my house, I have a bit of british spirit. There's space for more.
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Old Jun 18th 2008, 11:22 am
  #97  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
You and me are clearly in group 4 mate which has not yet been defined.

The ones who just like it here, without how or why we like it having to be qualified.

Buzzy
My Group 4 is:

People who came here for any reason and found what they were looking for and even got similar terms, or better, than the ones they had in the UK, or more balance. I'm fully paid up....doesn't cost much either but it does for some people.

Nisky about superiority - I think it's more the case that some people get fed up with institutionalised complaining. Constructive criticism is OK - it's when everything is a complaint and furthermore it is always Australia's fault. This is my "Group 5", a more unfortunate variant of "Group 1" who just couldn't make it happen for any number of reasons, and infact, need to take some of the responsibility. Nisky, like "itsonlyme", I guess you fall into ''Group 3'' - positive, realistic, and if I am correct, have an attached caveat - some well reasoned reservations about Australia - for example education, if I may quote you.

If people in Group 4 seem superior, they are probably the most fortunate group and when you have the high ground and the sun behind you...it is very easy to shake your head at any other group.

When I personally criticise whole sections of ''Group 5'', (as I do) noone who is a serious or prolific poster on this board need take it personally as it is not directed at them. I get myself into all sorts of trouble when people think I am talking about them....
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Old Jun 18th 2008, 11:34 am
  #98  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Then there's Group 7 - the lost. I thought I was going to Salzburg.
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Old Jun 18th 2008, 11:36 am
  #99  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by I_Will_Freckle
Then there's Group 7 - the lost. I thought I was going to Salzburg.
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Old Jun 19th 2008, 7:37 am
  #100  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by rabsody
Dr Phil is that you? Nah, even he wouldn't be so trite and simplistic.

So, does someone who gets hit by a car and end up in a wheelchair choose to be disabled because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Does a four year old child who gets abused by their parents choose to do so because they don't run away?

Your posts make me so angry, I am putting you on ignore :curse:

You are a first class judgemental twat and clearly not that bright. I really hope karma comes and bites you on the arse and you remember your ridiculous and selfish words and sentiments when it does. Grow up! :curse:
Here here! I am glad you responded to the sanctimonious twaddle from a smug twit. I sympathise with your predicament about leaving your children behind if you move back to the UK. It's a tough decision for a mother and I really, really hope you find some peace of mind
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Old Jun 19th 2008, 8:07 am
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by sonlymewalter
You can't judge by speaking to an exclusive / small sample size of undergrads on a train. The "poor sods on the train" do not represent a whole marketing population. This is not a great sample in statistical terms
Oh yes, he can. Surely this is only Badge's equivalent of 'The Man on the Clapham Omnibus', or as we call them here in Melbourne, 'The Man on the City Circle Tram'?

G.
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Old Jun 19th 2008, 8:27 am
  #102  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by I_Will_Freckle
Then there's Group 7 - the lost. I thought I was going to Salzburg.
And Group 9... we're the ones that drink gin before breakfast.

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Old Jun 19th 2008, 11:02 am
  #103  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Taking banks as an example of how people form different opinions. There are pluses and minuses for both UK and Aus banks.
  • UK banks are generally fee free whereas most (but not all) Aus banks have an account keeping fee.
  • Interbank transfers in the UK typically take 3-5 days whereas in Aus it's overnight.
  • Bill payments typically take 3-5 days in the UK whereas in Aus it's overnight.
  • Direct Credit (which has been available in Aus for longer) is typically overnight in Aus but again takes 3-5 days in the UK.
  • Aus and UK banks have various charges or fines but generally the Aussie ones are lower (e.g. $1.50 for use of a non-network ATM compared with £1.50 in the UK)

Now some people (or more like a lot of people) will say that Aus banks are backward because they still have account keeping fees. Others tend to be happy with what they are getting. Personally I have a fee-free bank in Aus with all the pluses of the Aus banks so for me banking in Aus is better than in the UK. (I still occasionally get caught out by that UK 3-5 day bill payment feature. )

Another popular statement is that Aus banks are only just now catching up with Direct Debit cards. This statement however misses a couple of important points. Aus EFTPOS (the main feature of the Debit Card) has been around a lot longer than the UK's equivalent EFPOS). The UK's EFPOS was a sticky tape solution for many years (i.e. the transaction was recorded in overnight processing). Other features of the Debit Card (e.g. online payment) were already covered by Bpay and Direct Credit in Aus a lot earlier than they were in the UK.

So why do people think Aus is behind? It's because Aus didn't do it the British way, which is naturally the superior way (even if it comes with sticky tape).

Last edited by MartinLuther; Jun 19th 2008 at 11:04 am.
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Old Jun 19th 2008, 8:44 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by MartinLuther
takes 3-5 days in the UK
Are you serious? My current bank in Moscow (Raiffaisen) irritates me with overnight processing because my previous one did it instantly with a single click of a mouse. Have never thought that it could take that long in the UK...
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Old Jun 19th 2008, 11:46 pm
  #105  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by alipally
I am happy where I am, I like my life, I have a nice home, a good job and a good standard of living. We don't have loads of debt, we don't have loads of problems. Our lives are not about amassing more and more 'stuff'

The world is a big place and, as I see it, there are lots of places in the world to see and places where we can live differently.
I want to experience living in another country, not because we expect it to give us something that we are lacking here in the UK, but because we can. We are aware that it IS different to living in the UK. There will inevitably be opportunities for comparison with our old life. I fully expect some things to be better and others to be worse. One thing I don't expect is for it to be the same.
Which means that we will have Change, and change is difficult for everyone. I guess whether someone manages to be happy in Australia is down to how well the individual handles the changes, because if the changes are uncomfortable, many will simply go back to what was comfortable and familiar.
Those who do well in a new life are those who manage to adjust to the changes that challenge their new lives.
In essence it's not about how much money you do, or do not, have compared to your old life, but whether you're able to live with the changes in your life and circumstance.
I'm not there yet, but I hope that I am able to handle the changes and make a new life down under.

Ali x
I totally agree
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