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Why the difference...

Why the difference...

Old Jun 15th 2008, 10:57 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by alipally
I am not making any judgements, just observations. I never judge anyone else, I've no right to do so.

We are all where we are because we made a choice, and in doing so we also chose to accept the consequences (good and bad) of that choice. Choosing to stay in a place is made by weighing up the consequences of that choice.

eg. you chose to marry an Australian. The consequence is that at least one of you will live away from the country of your birth, or the country that you regard as home.
If you choose to go home and he chose to stay then the consequence would be that you live apart.
I never said that moving was an easy choice, I simply pointed out that that option is available to everyone.... but, I neglected to mention the consequences of that choice.

The lady who is living in Australia because of her children... believes that she is stuck for another 6-8 years..... She could choose to leave her children and go back to the UK.... There are obvious consequences of that choice. She may find that she is alone in wanting to go back to the UK in 6-8 years .... but she can STILL choose.....
Did either of you consider how living abroad may affect you when you married? Sometimes we make choices without considering the potential consequences of them. Unfortunately, not considering them, does not mean that they won't happen.... Therefore, we are the product of our own choices and the consequences that arise from them.
Simplistic, maybe, but nevertheless, absolutely and indisputably true.

I have read some very harsh posts on this thread but you have written the most condescending and patronising one yet. And you are being judgemental in post #49.

Our choices are made with the facts we have to go on at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and of course people's lives would be better if we all had that gift but we don't. Rabsody deserves a medal for sacrificing her personal happiness to stay with her children. How could she have possibly seen that years down the line she would split up with her Australian partner and what the consequences would be.

How could Pollyana foresee that when she married an Australian she would be unable to settle or even have difficulty find a job to suit her skills and capabilities.

They didn't and you are being very unkind to insinuate they should have thought about their choices more.

There are far too many variables in people's lives for you to make such sweeping statements. I'm glad I live in my world with shades of grey and compassion. Unlike yourself who lives in a smug hard world of black and white.

(Another one for the ignore list).
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Old Jun 15th 2008, 11:32 pm
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Seeing as people seem to be at a loss to tell me what problems Australia has that I wouldn't find in the UK I have just thought of one.

Flies.

Yes I know from growing up on a farm in the UK that they can be a problem there too but they do get really bad here (in my bit of Vic) for about a month every year even away from farms.

I now own a flynet for when I want to work in the garden or go cycling during the fly season.
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Old Jun 15th 2008, 11:44 pm
  #78  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by MartinLuther
Seeing as people seem to be at a loss to tell me what problems Australia has that I wouldn't find in the UK I have just thought of one.

Flies.

Yes I know from growing up on a farm in the UK that they can be a problem there too but they do get really bad here (in my bit of Vic) for about a month every year even away from farms.

I now own a flynet for when I want to work in the garden or go cycling during the fly season.
Yes flies.

And really poor quality over salted fish and chips.

Gee I'm a whinger.

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Old Jun 15th 2008, 11:48 pm
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Default Re: Why the difference...

people are as varied as the blades of grass and so are their reasons for doing things and enjoying things and there is no definitive explanation as to why people settle and others don't,as kipling says There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays, and every single one of them is right!
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Old Jun 16th 2008, 12:00 am
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
Yes flies.

And really poor quality over salted fish and chips.

Gee I'm a whinger.

Buzzy
Yep. I always hate it when I forget to ask for no salt. I blame Australia for that.
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Old Jun 16th 2008, 12:09 am
  #81  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by asher
people are as varied as the blades of grass and so are their reasons for doing things and enjoying things and there is no definitive explanation as to why people settle and others don't,as kipling says There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays, and every single one of them is right!
I've always found that on a fireground with (say) 4 firefighters there's always at least 6 different opinions on how to fight the fire.

We don't see things as they are, we see them through our own personal filters.

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Old Jun 16th 2008, 12:18 am
  #82  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by rabsody
Dr Phil is that you? Nah, even he wouldn't be so trite and simplistic.

So, does someone who gets hit by a car and end up in a wheelchair choose to be disabled because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Does a four year old child who gets abused by their parents choose to do so because they don't run away?

Your posts make me so angry, I am putting you on ignore :curse:

You are a first class judgemental twat and clearly not that bright. I really hope karma comes and bites you on the arse and you remember your ridiculous and selfish words and sentiments when it does. Grow up! :curse:
I have to agree with your reply whole-heartedly Rapsody.
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Old Jun 16th 2008, 6:45 am
  #83  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by rabsody
Dr Phil is that you? Nah, even he wouldn't be so trite and simplistic.

So, does someone who gets hit by a car and end up in a wheelchair choose to be disabled because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Does a four year old child who gets abused by their parents choose to do so because they don't run away?
It all becomes so clear now. Had you sat down 30 years ago and thought for a minute, you would have realised that you could never marry an Australian because if you split up, you would be stuck in Australia because of the children. Note to self, in the next life I must not decide to do anything because the consequences of that action could come back and bite me on the bum. Although presumably making the choice to do nothing could also end up being the wrong thing Jeez, this life thing ain't simple is it
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Old Jun 16th 2008, 7:32 am
  #84  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

OK, I'm making a bit of a hash of what I'm trying to say, and it seems that I have caused a bit of an uproar. I apologise to those who I have offended unreservedly.
Possibly this passage below, (written by somebody way more eloquent and intelligent than me) may help you to understand the point that I was trying to make... it's entirely philosophical, take from it what you will, but in essence I am only the messenger....It's LONG AND there's more about choice and happiness if anyone is at all interested.

I have these ideas about these things and I would like your opinion. You may not agree, but it is what I think.

First, I would like to say that Fate/Destiny and Causality are linked. To me, fate predestines things and people, which is why people or outside infulences
of a person control your fate. I will explain how Causality and Fate are related in the next three paragraphs.

There is something we all known as Free Will. We all make choices by our own free will. But what about the outside influences and people around you? If you choose to drop a glass vase, it will break. If you choose to misbehave, you get punished. If you choose to give a tree some water, it will grow. If you choose to do as you're told, you get rewarded. The first two are examples of fate giving bad consequence and the last two are fate giving good consequenses.

If you choose to do something bad, like running into a wall; The laws of physics will punish you by making the wall hurt you if you don't break through it, since you did not have enough energy to break it. If you do break through the wall, the laws of physics will help you by having the wall break because of its weak structure.

If you hurt a person of higher power, he will have the choice to have you arrested. If you are not that person, that person's choice is a part of fate,since you have no control of his actions and he is giving you a consequence. This is also Causality, since your choice is the cause and the person's choice, or your fate is the consequence.

There are two types of apporaches in Psychology. One of them is Behaviorism, which is cause and effect & rewards and punishments.
The other is Humanism; the approach that each human has the potential to become a great person, which has free will. I believe that the humanism approach and the behaviorism approach go with each other because when you make a choice, you get punished or rewarded for it.

When the sun heats a meadow for a very long time, the consequence is that the meadow will become a desert. This is governed by physical laws, like heat and the plants withering. Human made decisions are also governed by physical laws, since the brain uses chemicals to think.

Last thing I want to go over is probability. Probability, to me, is nothing more than the laws of physics working. If you hold a dice at the right side, the right angle and throw it at the right speed, you will get a six. Same thing for flipping a coin. Holding it at the right side and right angle as well as throwing it at the right speed will get you heads. Also, the weather is said to be unpredictable. However, by measuring the sum of all of the factors that change the weather, it is possible to measure it accurately.

Fate is what happens when we relinquish control over our lives. Ask yourself these two questions. Who/what is influencing the direction in which my life is going? How do I gain more control over my life?

The purpose of the first question is to take inventory of what is controlling your destiny. This shows you where the reins are that you must access to steer yourself towards your goals. Once you get to a point where you are confronted with choices than you need to prioritize by what will give the best results. Steer away from goals with rewards which don’t justify the time, energy and risk of failure needed to achieve them, instead steer towards goals that yield satisfactory rewards. Remember that success is the greatest motivator.

The reason for the second question is to understand where choice comes from and what our goals should be. Other (non-human) species have very little choice but to follow their instinctual programming. We however have the capacity to understand what we are and what will make our lives better. This is what makes choice possible and therefore cultivating this ability should direct our goals. Once this is in place our possibilities grow exponentially.

One other point I’d like to make is that questioning our ability to make a difference in our lives is a self-fulfilling prophecy. By directing our attention away from what we could be doing we
leave no alternative but to succumb to fate.

The fundamental choice in any situation is to think or not to think. If determinism was a fact than thought would be pointless. The choice to believe in determinism is an attempt to evade responsibility for ones choices and actions just as choosing not to think is an attempt to evade the reality that reason is our method of survival and as such defines us as a species
.

The link to the happiness argument is below

http://www.consciouschoice.com/2001/...rated1406.html

Last edited by alipally; Jun 16th 2008 at 7:51 am.
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Old Jun 16th 2008, 7:48 am
  #85  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by alipally
OK, I'm making a bit of a hash of what I'm trying to say, and it seems that I have caused a bit of an uproar. I apologise to those who I have offended unreservedly.
Thank you for that.

Originally Posted by alipally
If you choose to do something bad, like running into a wall; The laws of physics will punish you by making the wall hurt you if you don't break through it, since you did not have enough energy to break it. If you do break through the wall, the laws of physics will help you by having the wall break because of its weak structure.
I find this too simplistic for this subject though. For example Rabsody chose to fall in love with an Australian and have children - that is a good choice IMO. However, circumstances have meant that in effect she is being punished for the choice because the marriage ended and she has no choice (from a parental point of view) but to live somewhere she doesn't want to.

I say again, when it comes to human nature there can be no compartments. Everybody and their circumstances are completely individual.
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Old Jun 16th 2008, 8:01 am
  #86  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

In case you missed it the happiness argument is below

http://www.consciouschoice.com/2001/...rated1406.html[/QUOTE]

and the next paragraph, I hope said something about fate/consequences.

"If you hurt a person of higher power, he will have the choice to have you arrested. If you are not that person, that person's choice is a part of fate,since you have no control of his actions and he is giving you a consequence. This is also Causality, since your choice is the cause and the person's choice, or your fate is the consequence."

It did follow on from the quote you made.... In the case of Rhabsody.... her Australian ex is the one with higher power..... and now she suffers.
It's neither fair nor just, but as he has the power she gets the consequence.


Please note that there is no blame in here, no who hurt whom... but ultimately, who was in possession of the higher power, which was, her ex. Again I find myself apologising.....
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Old Jun 16th 2008, 9:09 am
  #87  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Originally Posted by crystal23
I have read some very harsh posts on this thread but you have written the most condescending and patronising one yet. And you are being judgemental in post #49.

Our choices are made with the facts we have to go on at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and of course people's lives would be better if we all had that gift but we don't. Rabsody deserves a medal for sacrificing her personal happiness to stay with her children. How could she have possibly seen that years down the line she would split up with her Australian partner and what the consequences would be.

How could Pollyana foresee that when she married an Australian she would be unable to settle or even have difficulty find a job to suit her skills and capabilities.

They didn't and you are being very unkind to insinuate they should have thought about their choices more.

There are far too many variables in people's lives for you to make such sweeping statements. I'm glad I live in my world with shades of grey and compassion. Unlike yourself who lives in a smug hard world of black and white.

(Another one for the ignore list).
I think this post is silly. No-one is saying that people should have been able to foresee the future. All that Allipally said was that if you make a choice in life, whether it is basejumping, piling millions into dodgy shares, or (shock, horror - something that doesn't appear too risky at first sight) moving to another country, then you have to deal with the outcomes...good or bad, because you headed down that path voluntarily, knowing the risks.

And to the person who compared this whole silly slanging match to a 4yr old being abused - that's a rubbish example as the 4yr old didn't make any choices that would have put him/her in that situation.

Last edited by asprilla; Jun 16th 2008 at 9:20 am. Reason: sorry - saying "get a life" was a bit rude!
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Old Jun 16th 2008, 9:44 am
  #88  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

I've just been back and missed a post from Rabsody....

It's not personal, merely an observation of the world at large. I don't do personal slanging matches and i don't engage in mindless name calling. I have no wish to spend my energies in that way.

Karma, I don't believe in, nor God, nor any other supernatural being. I am the sum of my own actions,choices and decisions, I am not deterministic....

Whilst I'm sorry that Rabsody feels unhappy with her lot, I have no impact on her circumstance....
For me, this argument is purely philosophical, there are more issues and complications and I could ever hope to include in a post, I have provided a link to an article on happiness, you may find interesting in a previous post this morning.

Last edited by alipally; Jun 16th 2008 at 11:35 am. Reason: spelling
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Old Jun 18th 2008, 8:31 am
  #89  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

This is making my brain hurt - can we chill out a bit, preferably with a LARGE glass of wine/beer?? (half empty of course cos I've drunk the other half!!)
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Old Jun 18th 2008, 9:06 am
  #90  
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Default Re: Why the difference...

Good idea.

And when did "causality" become a word ???

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