Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit

Yes.

At the moment, Oz citizens, Oz PR holders, and NZ citizens are all eligible for 'commonwealth supported places' (CSPs) but the number of places are limited so the unis decide. The shortfall between the cost of a CSP (which the government pays direct to the uni) and full fee place (difference per annum is circa $6-7k for the former and $20k-ish for the latter) for commonwealth supported students is paid by the students. Only Oz citizens can access HECS-HELP, which is for student loans. Oz citizens can also access loans for full fee places. Currently Oz PR holders and NZ citizens must pay the shortfall each semester, up front.

The new proposals have a number of advantages but a number of disadvantages also. Despite the first poster's nonsense statement about "leeches" etc. (was he actually talking about all of us - migrants who have made our way through the expensive and time-consuming process to bring our families to Australia?!), this is of interest to all migrants who could have university plans within their first few years.

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit

It can if you go from observing a few instances of a behaviour to generating a statement about "heaps". That's actually the very definition of racism.



But this is a distraction from the point of this post, which was to ensure that those considering migration are aware of this change.

I think a better and fairer proposal would be to apply a similar model to NZ and the UK: restrict access to loans and domestic fee places by virtue of time resident with non-temporary visas. In terms of maintaining neighbourly relations with NZ, it would likely be expedient to apply a reciprocal model: treat Kiwis as domestic students but lock them out of loans and allowances until three years of residence has passed.

Some of the kick-back online has been a bit OTT to me but there are some real examples of people getting proper shafted on this. For example, if you were a Kiwi in Oz fr many years but applied for your PR only recently (thinking that you would obtain it and only need a single year before applying for citizenship) then the recent announcement about needing PR for 4 years means you have inadvertently shafted yourself because if you waited until June this year you could apply under the special pathway and only have to wait a year after PR. If you have kids coming up to uni age, it's not hard to see why tax-paying Kiwis who have been here for years might be feeling a bit raw right now.

I also feel a bit sorry for the Kiwis in NZ in year 13 who have applied for uni here and are now facing the prospect of terrifying amounts of debt or not going to Oz at all. There are some courses that just aren't really available in NZ and some uni experiences that aren't either.

It's a changing relationship with NZ, which Australia is well within its right to do of course, but Australia is showing its harsh and uncompromising side to what has always been its closest 'cousin' and neighbour. Given NZ's size and economy, Australia will probably never have reason to bitterly regret that but it's still a shameful way to proceed, even if the proceeding is inevitable.

Originally Posted by joeyballantyne

May I offer an example : a young man, nz citizen I spoke to yesterday has been working 7 days a week for two years to save 20k - he wanted to be ahead of the game when paying for his 4-year teaching degree which until Tuesday was going to cost around $29k via a csp, he now faces a non-csp fee of $84k via the fee-help loan.

Originally Posted by xizzles

Simple, really - head back home to NZ and get his teaching degree done there. NZ is, as is Australia, a first world country after all. This is simply what I'd call a first world problem.

What about someone from say, India who worked 7 days a week, 16 hours a day, for the past 10 years, to save up enough for his dream of migrating to the land of milk and honey. He might not have a back up country to fly home to - and may even garner far less sympathy for his plight.

Both hypothetical examples above are non-citizens, and neither of them should feel that they are somehow entitled to preferential treatment just because life is tough for them. Oh, for heaven's sakes, grow a pair and grow up already.

At the end of the day, some non-citizens got shafted by Australia. What's the big deal? Every country does that via their politicians. Even Australians have been shafted by these guys in the recent past. They'd shaft their own mothers, if they thought that would help them score points with the electorate.

Originally Posted by joeyballantyne

Bless ya xizzles - I was sharing an example. Thanks for your opinion though

Originally Posted by xizzles

Simple, really - head back home to NZ and get his teaching degree done there. NZ is, as is Australia, a first world country after all. This is simply what I'd call a first world problem.

What about someone from say, India who worked 7 days a week, 16 hours a day, for the past 10 years, to save up enough for his dream of migrating to the land of milk and honey. He might not have a back up country to fly home to - and may even garner far less sympathy for his plight.

Both hypothetical examples above are non-citizens, and neither of them should feel that they are somehow entitled to preferential treatment just because life is tough for them. Oh, for heaven's sakes, grow a pair and grow up already.

At the end of the day, some non-citizens got shafted by Australia. What's the big deal? Every country does that via their politicians. Even Australians have been shafted by these guys in the recent past. They'd shaft their own mothers, if they thought that would help them score points with the electorate.

Originally Posted by xizzles

Simple, really - head back home to NZ and get his teaching degree done there. NZ is, as is Australia, a first world country after all. This is simply what I'd call a first world problem.