Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Australia
Reload this Page >

Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Old May 1st 2017, 11:10 pm
  #1  
---
Thread Starter
 
bourbon-biscuit's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,994
bourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

As announced last night.

IF this goes through unchanged then from 2018 PR holders and NZ citizens would no longer received a subsidy from the Oz government for uni tuition (they would no longer be eligible for Commonwealth Supported Places) BUT they would be eligible for loans for full-fees places.

It's a mixed bag really and whether you consider it good news or not depends on your personal circumstances and plans: PR holders and NZ citizens will no longer have to pay upfront each semester for their tuition (circa $6-7k per annum) but would be eligible for a loan for a full fee place (circa $20k).

My daughter is already at uni so will remain CSP for the duration so it makes no odds to me but thought it has real implications for migrants - worth knowing about!
bourbon-biscuit is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 12:00 am
  #2  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 706
xizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Again I say, it's about time. Get the leeches and passengers off the system's back!
xizzles is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 12:57 am
  #3  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 159
giri26 has a reputation beyond reputegiri26 has a reputation beyond reputegiri26 has a reputation beyond reputegiri26 has a reputation beyond reputegiri26 has a reputation beyond reputegiri26 has a reputation beyond reputegiri26 has a reputation beyond reputegiri26 has a reputation beyond reputegiri26 has a reputation beyond reputegiri26 has a reputation beyond reputegiri26 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Not worried too much about this. My daughter is just 7 months old now. Anyways all these sweeping changes seems too forced to me all of a sudden.
giri26 is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 1:52 am
  #4  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
carcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

How does funding for the universities work now with CSPs - for those on CSP, the difference between what the student pays and the full-fee rate, does that difference get paid to the universities by the Government?
carcajou is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 3:41 am
  #5  
---
Thread Starter
 
bourbon-biscuit's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,994
bourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Originally Posted by carcajou
How does funding for the universities work now with CSPs - for those on CSP, the difference between what the student pays and the full-fee rate, does that difference get paid to the universities by the Government?
Yes.

At the moment, Oz citizens, Oz PR holders, and NZ citizens are all eligible for 'commonwealth supported places' (CSPs) but the number of places are limited so the unis decide. The shortfall between the cost of a CSP (which the government pays direct to the uni) and full fee place (difference per annum is circa $6-7k for the former and $20k-ish for the latter) for commonwealth supported students is paid by the students. Only Oz citizens can access HECS-HELP, which is for student loans. Oz citizens can also access loans for full fee places. Currently Oz PR holders and NZ citizens must pay the shortfall each semester, up front.

The new proposals have a number of advantages but a number of disadvantages also. Despite the first poster's nonsense statement about "leeches" etc. (was he actually talking about all of us - migrants who have made our way through the expensive and time-consuming process to bring our families to Australia?!), this is of interest to all migrants who could have university plans within their first few years.
bourbon-biscuit is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 4:16 am
  #6  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
carcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

So then, it is not potentially a windfall for the universities.

Fee hikes with helpful increases in loan access are poisoned chalices - the same happened in the US and it is now well known that student-loan debt has eclipsed credit card debt in that nation. The universities there gleefully helped pass along what they called "high fee, high aid" policies because loans meant the unis got paid in full, and if the student borrower got in over their heads with debt - not the unis problem.

So while this is not what happened in the US, it is on the same slope, and I am just wondering what the unis take on this, what is in it for them.
carcajou is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 4:25 am
  #7  
---
Thread Starter
 
bourbon-biscuit's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,994
bourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Unis are just relieved that the general funding chop (circa $2.8billion) is less than Abbott proposed in 2014.

We've got a new mine to fund, see ...
bourbon-biscuit is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 4:33 am
  #8  
Proudly Deplorable
 
Amazulu's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Amazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit
We've got a new mine to fund, see ...
How does that work then?
Amazulu is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 5:30 am
  #9  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 706
xizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit
Despite the first poster's nonsense statement about "leeches" etc. (was he actually talking about all of us - migrants who have made our way through the expensive and time-consuming process to bring our families to Australia?!), this is of interest to all migrants who could have university plans within their first few years.
It's not nonsense, and you'd be blind not to see it. Heaps of Hong Kongers and mainland Chinese leave their latchkey PR-status children behind to rort the system, enjoying the same subsidies and benefits as citizens who've paid taxes for ages. I'm not being racist - my wife is ethnically Chinese, but a Singaporean, and she can't tolerate the way these people abuse the system.

And these are the cases that I'm aware of - I shall not stoop low to accuse similar PRs from other countries (3rd world or 1st, I don't discriminate), but I'm sure this habit doesn't just stop with the Chinese from HK or the mainland.
xizzles is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 7:26 am
  #10  
---
Thread Starter
 
bourbon-biscuit's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,994
bourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Originally Posted by xizzles
It's not nonsense, and you'd be blind not to see it. Heaps of Hong Kongers and mainland Chinese leave their latchkey PR-status children behind to rort the system, enjoying the same subsidies and benefits as citizens who've paid taxes for ages. I'm not being racist - my wife is ethnically Chinese, but a Singaporean, and she can't tolerate the way these people abuse the system.
Just so I am clear here about what you're saying: "heaps" must be a lot for you to feel it warrants shutting legitimate migrant families out of commonwealth support for fees? So we must be talking thousands at least? Of this I am clearly ignorant, so please tell us more: where is this happening? When was it picked up? Are there plans to close the immigration loop-hole that allows this to happen?

Originally Posted by xizzles
And these are the cases that I'm aware of - I shall not stoop low to accuse similar PRs from other countries (3rd world or 1st, I don't discriminate), but I'm sure this habit doesn't just stop with the Chinese from HK or the mainland.
Phew, glad you made that clear. I was worried for a moment there.
bourbon-biscuit is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 7:37 am
  #11  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 706
xizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit
Just so I am clear here about what you're saying: "heaps" must be a lot for you to feel it warrants shutting legitimate migrant families out of commonwealth support for fees? So we must be talking thousands at least? Of this I am clearly ignorant, so please tell us more: where is this happening? When was it picked up? Are there plans to close the immigration loop-hole that allows this to happen?
They've already started closing loopholes - and this is just another one of them. The distinction between a citizen (I'm not Australian) and a PR (I'm an Australian PR) should be big enough to ensure that a PR has the motivation to become a citizen (not an issue for those from countries who recognize dual citizenships) and not jump ship after they've sucked the host country dry.

I'm speaking in general terms - Singapore suffered the same type of abuse as Australia, insofar as Indians, Pinoys, mainland Chinese flooded her shores for cheap/subsidized education, healthcare and other benefits, only to fly off with nary a thanks - either back home where a Singapore education is held in high regard to start their successful careers or run their businesses. The government of the day responded by tightening immigration rules and reducing the overly generous PR benefits - thus, in a way, reserving them for citizens (as it should be the case in the first place).

In my opinion, if you're a PR, and while you pay taxes faithfully & contribute to the economy, the reward is the right for you to reside in the host country, as it's given you that opportunity to make that money to pay your taxes and contributions in the first place. If you want the exact same privileges, become a citizen, end of.

I'm sure there'll be many who disagree, and feel it's their Grud-given right to be entitled to all sorts of state-sponsored subsidies etc, just because they are PRs. And I can similarly assure you that there will be just as many who see these types in a less than positive light.

Like I said, it's my opinion. You're obviously entitled to yours.
xizzles is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 10:17 am
  #12  
BE Enthusiast
 
garyp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 484
garyp is a glorious beacon of lightgaryp is a glorious beacon of lightgaryp is a glorious beacon of lightgaryp is a glorious beacon of lightgaryp is a glorious beacon of lightgaryp is a glorious beacon of lightgaryp is a glorious beacon of lightgaryp is a glorious beacon of lightgaryp is a glorious beacon of lightgaryp is a glorious beacon of lightgaryp is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

And these are the cases that I'm aware of - I shall not stoop low to accuse similar PRs from other countries (3rd world or 1st, I don't discriminate), but I'm sure this habit doesn't just stop with the Chinese from HK or the mainland.
I thought you just did

Last edited by moneypenny20; May 2nd 2017 at 10:52 am. Reason: Fixed quote.
garyp is offline  
Old May 2nd 2017, 2:35 pm
  #13  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 706
xizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond reputexizzles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Originally Posted by garyp
I thought you just did
Statement of factual, albeit anecdotal experiences with PRs from HK & PRC cannot count as discriminatory, and certainly cannot be termed racist.

How different is this from the South Asian/Eastern European immigrant that hauls along his extended family to the NHS to access the free services back in Blightly? And don't get started on how that's discriminatory or racist again - because I bet you know exactly what I'm talking about
xizzles is offline  
Old May 3rd 2017, 11:56 pm
  #14  
---
Thread Starter
 
bourbon-biscuit's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,994
bourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond reputebourbon-biscuit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Originally Posted by xizzles
Statement of factual, albeit anecdotal experiences with PRs from HK & PRC cannot count as discriminatory, and certainly cannot be termed racist.
It can if you go from observing a few instances of a behaviour to generating a statement about "heaps". That's actually the very definition of racism.



But this is a distraction from the point of this post, which was to ensure that those considering migration are aware of this change.

I think a better and fairer proposal would be to apply a similar model to NZ and the UK: restrict access to loans and domestic fee places by virtue of time resident with non-temporary visas. In terms of maintaining neighbourly relations with NZ, it would likely be expedient to apply a reciprocal model: treat Kiwis as domestic students but lock them out of loans and allowances until three years of residence has passed.

Some of the kick-back online has been a bit OTT to me but there are some real examples of people getting proper shafted on this. For example, if you were a Kiwi in Oz fr many years but applied for your PR only recently (thinking that you would obtain it and only need a single year before applying for citizenship) then the recent announcement about needing PR for 4 years means you have inadvertently shafted yourself because if you waited until June this year you could apply under the special pathway and only have to wait a year after PR. If you have kids coming up to uni age, it's not hard to see why tax-paying Kiwis who have been here for years might be feeling a bit raw right now.

I also feel a bit sorry for the Kiwis in NZ in year 13 who have applied for uni here and are now facing the prospect of terrifying amounts of debt or not going to Oz at all. There are some courses that just aren't really available in NZ and some uni experiences that aren't either.

It's a changing relationship with NZ, which Australia is well within its right to do of course, but Australia is showing its harsh and uncompromising side to what has always been its closest 'cousin' and neighbour. Given NZ's size and economy, Australia will probably never have reason to bitterly regret that but it's still a shameful way to proceed, even if the proceeding is inevitable.
bourbon-biscuit is offline  
Old May 4th 2017, 1:17 am
  #15  
Proudly Deplorable
 
Amazulu's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Amazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni funding changes for PR holders and NZ citizens

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit
It can if you go from observing a few instances of a behaviour to generating a statement about "heaps". That's actually the very definition of racism.



But this is a distraction from the point of this post, which was to ensure that those considering migration are aware of this change.

I think a better and fairer proposal would be to apply a similar model to NZ and the UK: restrict access to loans and domestic fee places by virtue of time resident with non-temporary visas. In terms of maintaining neighbourly relations with NZ, it would likely be expedient to apply a reciprocal model: treat Kiwis as domestic students but lock them out of loans and allowances until three years of residence has passed.

Some of the kick-back online has been a bit OTT to me but there are some real examples of people getting proper shafted on this. For example, if you were a Kiwi in Oz fr many years but applied for your PR only recently (thinking that you would obtain it and only need a single year before applying for citizenship) then the recent announcement about needing PR for 4 years means you have inadvertently shafted yourself because if you waited until June this year you could apply under the special pathway and only have to wait a year after PR. If you have kids coming up to uni age, it's not hard to see why tax-paying Kiwis who have been here for years might be feeling a bit raw right now.

I also feel a bit sorry for the Kiwis in NZ in year 13 who have applied for uni here and are now facing the prospect of terrifying amounts of debt or not going to Oz at all. There are some courses that just aren't really available in NZ and some uni experiences that aren't either.

It's a changing relationship with NZ, which Australia is well within its right to do of course, but Australia is showing its harsh and uncompromising side to what has always been its closest 'cousin' and neighbour. Given NZ's size and economy, Australia will probably never have reason to bitterly regret that but it's still a shameful way to proceed, even if the proceeding is inevitable.
I don't feel sorry for them - kiwis can live here, no questions asked, no application, no medical - forever. How generous is that? Yes, Australia citizens get a better deal in NZ but that's their government's issue, not ours

Kiwis have a pathway to PR like the rest of us - but I reckon we don't really get the cream of the crop coming here and many don't have the skills to get independent, skilled PR

There is an overall solution to this though - NZ can become a state of Australia - as was originally envisaged in the late 19th century when Australia was looking at federation. Both countries would benefit economically and there would be total free movement of people
Amazulu is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.