the troubadour

Well no the above post is wrong on a number of points. Libertarian economics has not been good for Australia, by and large, but the results will take time to filter through.


How anyone can state we are wealthy as a people, with one of the highest personal debts in the world is beyond me.


When the superannuation will not be enough for the average Australian to live on, plus highly unlikely that it will continue to be maintained in its present form,
or that one in three on aged pensions live in poverty, not to say the recent release of kids living in poverty, usually single parent house holds, doesn't sound terribly awesome to me.

Australia is a far less cohesive society than it once was. Neoliberal thinking being focused on purely the 'free' market, which means little to those without the resources and therefore the opportunity to make use of it.


Not forgetting increasingly unaffordable principle cities and among the most expensive real estate in the world, it is very difficult to spot the awesomeness, apparent to the above poster out there.

GreenwichCat

Many thanks, hopefully I'll make my way back to Oz if I don't move permanently to Singapore.

I would say very honestly - having returned to the UK and now about to leave again, Australia's high cost of living is very much a price worth paying for, the much higher standard of living really is worth it. Whilst the UK isn't terrible, no one here would suggest life is great by comparative Western standards. In truth, this utopian low-cost high standard of living society does not exist anywhere. Certainly not in advanced economies like Australia, Singapore, Canada and the UK.

In the context of the UK's cheap consumer goods economy, you certainly get what you pay for - ie. UK salaries are shockingly low comparative to Aussie wages etc. Whilst like Oz, house prices (in the economically prosperous and more populated parts of the country) are high. UK salaries have barely moved and in real terms, have fallen in the last 8yrs as have general standard of living.

On balance, I would say any Brits living in Australia (or SG, NZ, Canada etc) have much better prospects than anywhere in Europe, with only Switzerland anywhere near comparable.

the troubadour

Just because UK is a low wage paying nation in many instances, does not in any way negate what has happened in Australia over recent years. The onus is on cutting and restructuring. Wages are certainly not keeping up with the cost of living.


What the above poster omits is the superior health care, pensions, rent protection in countries in Northern Europe, not just Switzerland (which is attractive, hence the numbers of French and Germans working there) and a housing market in Australia outside of the reach of increasingly ever more Australians.


A country largely kept afloat by Ponzi immigration, high housing prices (well over priced) ever more difficult work places (some of the longest hours worked in developed countries) an increasingly dissatisfied population, distrustful of government.
By the way NZ, has actually very low wages in the main. To top it off it has some of the most inflated housing prices in the world. Parts of Canada as well.

GreenwichCat

Well I live in the UK right now and I can tell you that British people do not currently think their healthcare is in any way superior, and in my experience, that is true. People all over Europe are far more dissatisfied as they feel their standard of living is declining, because economically it is sinking. The UK and Europe are mired in decline because of incessant public overspending on this gold standard lifestyle that you talk about. Here,, there is an increasing debate about an 'inter-generational gap' where the young and working are losing out and paying for the demands and as many would argue, outright greed, of wealthier older pensioners. People who have frankly been spoilt by state welfare, done very well out of life and yet still demand more. Like the aftermath of the 1970s IMF bailout, the UK has again been paying for this great socialist shopping spree.

Though I note you live in Perth and not in the UK or Europe?

And you don't like immigration (apart from Brits and others who look like you of course?). Well who do you think is running the NHS in the UK and mining the resources in Australia? You'know the things that actually make an economy and society run.

Amazulu

When the Labour government was planning the NHS just after WW2 they were warned by some of their own people that their policy would bankrupt the country by the end of the century

They were right - current UK sovereign debt = GBP1.6 trillion

The same issues face most of the countries of Western Europe. The lack of any meaningful kind of private pension system in countries like Germany and France means that the onus to provide for their people falls on the state. Problem is, the baby-boomers are spending it all now and little is being accumulated for future generations. Awesome of you are a baby-boomer but gen X and beyond face a bleak future. At least the UK has a substantial private pension system. Same for Australia. Total super pile is $2 trillion now and will be $8 trillion in my lifetime. The other problem that much of Western Europe faces is their pathetic rent for life culture. People there cannot accumulate wealth in their property and use that in retirement as the majority don't own it. Germany faces a huge issue in this regard

When it comes to a home, you either pay your own mortgage or you pay someone else's. Simple

bcworld

Which is no different to Australia of course. At the moment there is a discussion about how millennials etc. can't afford to get on the property ladder...allegedly because they spend too much on smashed avocado at brunch.

the troubadour

Meanwhile back to reality and fact being many Brit's are indeed leaving. New Zealanders as well, which may give an indication just how 'challenged' the economy is at present.


Health care is being run down in all neoliberal economies if you hadn't noticed. In Australia we are certainly paying more each year, yet the gap gets wider, with an increasing two tier health system in place.


Please don't speak for people all over Europe. Comment on what you are familiar with. I know for a fact the health system in Germany remains of quality and provides a lot of services not available, or at high cost here in Australia.
I actually know a couple that returned to Germany after the woman developed heart problems and is well in a position to compare available care. On her own reckoning she have passed over if they hadn't returned and received the treatment they have even at their age, he has since developed serious health issues as well and gets first class care at no cost.


You do appear to have been sold the neoliberal furphy that has been shown not to work. The example of mass protest in western nations is for all to see. That much is true. Just you don't seem learned into how such a development arose.


Government is more than pure managers, in place to facilitate business concerns and bankers. This has been shown very much to be the case in the Anglo world.


I note you neglect to respond to New Zealand being a country of very low wages and over priced assets. Canada and Australia maintain some of the most inflated property in the world. Probably Singapore not to far behind. I suspect housing is still a paternalistic government policy though. Something long disappeared in the Australian context.


Now how can I resist the snide comment at the end of your post? You badly let your side down there. Don't like migrants that don't look like myself, or not British. You really should refrain from such statements without knowing anything on the person you are commenting about. I wonder are you Singaporean?


The fact of the mater being Australia needs to reduce immigration from all sources. It is a numbers game, not a race issue.

the troubadour

No it is not so black ad white. Nobody knows how superannuation will look like when many in the future want to claim it. The government being very likely to change the goal posts as they do with many things as they go along. Besides a major share correction will see a lot written off anyway.
Not to mention the average Australian is for a long time into the future going to be reliant on the impoverishing pension and part superannuation at best.


The pathetic housing culture you speak of in regards to Germany, is as you well know in place in Australia. A society that inflates its housing to such an extent, that disallows the young a chance to get into the market, something not evident in at least living memory, is hardly a culture to behold and claim superiority.


You know the score. You've argued it before. You are wrong. A culture like Germany, that provides choice, to buy or not buy, with both being perfectly valid choices, is far above one that offers little to no protection for renters and a lifetime of toil to pay off an over inflated house, quite often of substandard quality.


As you know (or should) tying up excess money in property is not healthy either for the economy or borrowers. It prevents more profitable investment. Not to say a risk for bankers, having too much invested in mortgages as they see it as an 'easy' little earner.


Always here to help.

the troubadour

No difference at all. Worse even as all Australian cities of note are suffering housing unaffordability to one level or another.

the troubadour

There are those of course, that appear to have arrived at the conclusion, that it's a great idea to sell the country out to foreign interests be it in housing, education, jobs, the farm, as well as immigration.


Australia the first true neoliberal democracy. Everything can be had for a price.

GreenwichCat

You sound like you read far too much Guardian online which is now considered as a pretty poor satirical parody by readers and journalists in the UK. Its where people browse online when they are really bored in the office, with the Daily Mail.

If 'neoliberal' Australia is so terrible, what are you doing in Perth of all places? If I had known Perth was little Havana, I would have visited this curious socialist haven. Wouldn't you feel more at home and valued for your knowledge in Caracas?

Pollyana

...........and when they're REALLY bored they resort to reading waffle on BE Better than the Guardian any day!!

Amazulu

So how are the 1 million 3rd world muslim immigrants working out for Germany?

I bet the young ethnic German women of Cologne are thrilled that they are there

Why is this a good thing for Germany but an orderly, controlled, restricted immigration policy bad for Australia?

the troubadour

And you make assumptions all to readily. Either English is your second language or you are unable to digest the written word but your comprehension appears challenged. Political awareness definitely lacking. Havana is full of American tourists these days. No actually more at home correcting wrong assumptions here in Perth than in Caracas, a place you no doubt no even less about than Perth.


That's okay you chose not to debate the race accusation or the low wage New Zealand economy. Nor to debate your European 'insight' or how bad the UK is or how you came to the conclusions Australia is so much more to your taste. I wonder, although the bar is low, if you even qualify for a visa to work here? First things first hey. Just letting you know, the neoliberal thinking that has ben a feature of UK for a considerable time is just at home in Australia. Seems to me that being the prime reason you fault UK.

the troubadour

No idea what you are rambling about. Nobody to my knowledge has said the right wing Merkel's actions as good for Germany. Business is applauding but few others, besides the apparent generosity there was more behind the action as I stated at the time.
Australia is using tough on boat arrivals as a cover for a lax, easy to enter immigration Ponzi, in order to satisfy business and the real estate industry , with little care for the declining standards being imposed on people. Ripe for sadly a right wing revolt to the ranks of Hanson and others.