FilmguyUK

Hi, all.

This is my first post, so go easy one me!

I work in Marketing and PR. I’d been in Singapore for just under two years, my wife and two young kids stayed in the UK whilst I saved up the required school fee’s ,which were about $88k for the pair each year.

Anyhow long story short I come back to the UK for Christmas. After looking at my Singapore salary which was about $120k SGD, even with little in the way of meaningful tax deductions, we just couldn’t make the sums stack up so I didn't return.

Both my wife and I love the sun, as do my kids and had always talked about using Singapore as a stepping stone to finally settling in Oz permanently. So I started speaking with contacts I’d made in Asia about finding a suitable new role.

Thankfully I’ve got a good network and had a fair few offers, but my initial worry is that they’re all based in Sydney which I know is super expensive, especially on the property rental side of things. My salary is likely to be about the same as Singapore but with increased tax deductions. Though the kids educational costs I'm assured would be a fraction of what we were planning on spending in Singapore.

It's ultimately all going to be a balancing act. I've not factored in my wife working yet, but that will increase our cash pot moving forward.

I'd initially planned on renting with a view of selling the UK property and using that cash as a deposit on a property.

Just after some words of advice and experiences of people doing something similar.

Matt x

moneypenny20

I understand you say you have companies interested in you but have you checked that you can in fact get a visa to work here? No disrespect to your plans but if you can't get a visa, it doesn't really matter about how much you'll earn or where you'll work. If the visa is fine then I'm sure you'll get lots of Sydney advice.

FilmguyUK

I've got a few options on the VISA front. Having got 15 plus years specific career experience I've spoken with the firms offering the roles and they're happy to provide sponsorship. I believe that based on my own application I'd be eligible under the 489 VISA. Singapore is extremely difficult to secure the higher band EP and in all truth I had no problem securing one based on my industry experience, but I'd imagine nothing is for certain until I've gone through the process formally.

xizzles

Hi FilmguyUK,

You're not wrong about Sydney - property prices there are extortionate, not merely exorbitant, and that includes rental prices in good suburbs (Inner West, Lower North Shore, to name but a few rough areas). And you're also right about salaries and pay packets - they are comparable in both the exchange rate and the absolute amount. With the currency nearly at par $120,000 in Singapore (minus big ticket items like car ownership and international school fees) goes way further than AUD120,000 would in Sydney - largely because, as you've correctly pointed out, of the negligible tax & deductibles.

However, since you have 2 school-going kids, should you qualify for a visa, you should also check if that visa will allow you access to subsidized schooling/fees/medical aid etc. I know for a fact that a skilled independent would, but others with more knowledge of the visa you mentioned, the 489, could chip in to help clarify matters.

However, if you're looking at Sydney (where you said your opportunities were), you'll also note that the 489 specifically excludes Sydney, Newcastle, the Central Coast & Wollongong. That's going to be a bit tricky, from what you said about work contacts and job openings.

Anyway, these are early days yet for you, and I'm sure there'll be many other helpful forum members ever willing to chip in with their 2 pennies/Singaporean cents/Aussie coins worth sooner or later.

Good luck!

FilmguyUK

Xizzles, thanks for you insight, really appreciate it.

It's funny because Singapore whilst super expensive in some ways was really cheap in others, like eating out and transportation. I'm going to check with the potential employers and see how others are working things. One of the firms I know has a high level of Brits working there. I'll report back and let people know how progress goes.

Beoz

Ok. Yes. I have moved to Sydney from the UK so let me put all the rubbish you hear, mostly from those who don't live in Sydney, to rest.

Expensive stuff: buying a house.

Non expensive stuff: everything else.

We recently had this same conversation on this site and it became apparent that rentals are a very similar price in Sydney and Melbourne.

Now on house prices (should you want to buy - not exactly high priority in my opinion but each to their own). You will see big changes this year. Governments (state and federal) and banks are all over this.

Now if the govts screw this up, by throwing money at first home buyers (like they did in Melbourne) property prices will continue to go up. But if they learn to do to things 1. Make it easier for people to sell and buy. 2. Penalise investors. You will see prices come down. Banks are already taking the opportunity to jack up interest rates for both investors and home owners.

The thing is, people want to live in Sydney because its the best, it has the most jobs, it has the best variety of lifestyle.

Everything else is cheap. Buying your lunch at work is cheaper in Sydney than it is in Brisbane for some bizarre reason (and Brisbane is a dump) go figure.

Also Sydney pays the highest salaries over Australia on average, look it up on google.

If you can get over the house buying bit, its the way forward.

FilmguyUK

Hi Beoz, thanks a lot for your comments. It's encouraging to hear it's not all doom and gloom. When I was initially offered a role in Singapore near on 2 years ago I had lots of people tell me that I'd struggle on my salary and bar the issue of the education I actually managed quite happily, being sensible with what I spent vs saved. Talking tonight with my wife, our opinion really is that we don't want to be living in smaller space than we have now. I'm also happy to commute and I know a fair few people at the one company get the ferry into work daily which I think they said is an hour commute. I know like most CBDs living in the center is going to be serious kick in the wallet. Can i ask what is a typical commute time, is the public transport prohibitively expensive and what is the typical rental target price for 3 bed? I know some of these questions are a bit how long is a piece of string, but we're fact finding right now and seeing what is possible. I also know that short term we'd be renting. Longer-term we'd be looking to sell our UK property which has about $160,000 equity and use that to find somewhere but it's all subject to how it goes in the initial stages...

Beoz

Ferry from Manly (assuming you are talking Manly) is 35 mins. Quicker on the fast ferry.

I live centrally and I rent so I can have a harbour view, a swimming pool, and bugger all commute. Life is too short.

"The Shire" sounds like you. Somewhere between Cronulla and Janalli. About 45 mins commute, family orientated, near the beach, etc. Or Northern Beaches but that's a nightmare commute.

Look up realestate.com.au or domain.com.au. Remember rents are relative to salaries. You can't just over price rent because you want to. People only earn a certain amount so you should be in the ball park.

xizzles

When I'm in Sydney (I have ping-ponged between Sydney and Singapore for the past decade or so, having been an "expat" based in Singapore for the past 25 years), I'm in the Inner West. I was lucky to have bought into the property market before all the madness began. To put things into perspective, my first purchase was more than 10 years ago - a small, studio apartment in St Leonard's. Cost me $250,000 and my latest purchase was a house in Annandale which was bought about 2 years back, for around $2 million. I know the locations are not exactly identical, nor the property sizes, but in just 10 years, the quantum in asking prices had jumped by a factor of 10.

If you're looking at $160,000 from the sale of your UK property, I'm afraid that's not exactly a loaded war chest and you might struggle to buy anything decent in Sydney. Having said that, do keep an eye and ear out for impending policy changes. I've already been hit by an increased in land tax payable, as I'm classified as an absent owner (PR who has spent less than 200 days in Australia), and with 3 properties all classified that way, I can assure you, it has started to make me think twice about dipping my toes in the property pond for a fourth bite. God knows what other policies they may tweak?

I'll also add this to what Beoz said: while most other things are "cheaper" in Sydney, you might find them a lot dearer than Singapore. Again, forget about car ownership - prices in Sydney (or in general, Australia) are 1/2 to 1/3 that of Singapore's for a similarly specified/optioned car - but what I'm talking about are things like eating out (there's nothing comparable in Sydney to Singapore's hawker centre fare, in terms of dirt cheap prices), transport (the MRT is still cheaper than the trains) and even taxi fares are relatively cheaper in Singapore than in Sydney.

Flying in and out into Asia for short trips are also way cheaper from Singapore than Sydney, obviously! And, as you have already pointed out, with a comparable salary, taxes are non-existent or negligible in Singapore but you'll feel the bite in Sydney for sure!

Beoz

Yes MRT and taxis in Sing are good value. That's if you can get a taxi in monsoonal downpour.

Ha. The Hawker Centre....... Please. How about something half decent - you pay through the nose

Shall we have a few wines with our meal in Singapore? Let me apply for a new credit card to finance that.

I was wondering what Numbeo said about the Sydney Singapore thing. It would appear you need about the same Net dollar value to maintain the same standard of living. Gross wise given the taxation difference you would need more in Sydney.


https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Singapore&country2=Aus tralia&city1=Singapore&city2=Sydney

moneypenny20

I love that journey but then I've only ever done it in good weather. The idea of having to do it in rough water would not make me happy.

Beoz

Yep. And it has a bar.

But

It does limit your living and work location options. You really need to be close to Manly or close to Circular Quay to make it a decent commuter option otherwise you end up spending your day on trains and buses at either end.

moneypenny20

That would be a very nice lifestyle. Manly's lovely.

xizzles

Oh, wines are overpriced, unless you get them from the airport (which I do, since I fly in and out often enough), but unless you're a major pisspot, or you seriously make a pittance, you'll be alright with a decent bottle of Bordeaux to go with your high class meal at Les Amis.

After 25 years, hawker fare with a glass of beer would be good enough for me, thanks.

spouse of scouse

I've had many a good hawker meal in Singapore, in fact I don't think I've ever had a bad one. Washed down with an icy cold lager of course, nothing better on a hot day.