Ozzidoc

No. I pointed out a comment which is perceived as being racist, and the reasons why this is the case.

You continue to miss my point. Alternatively, you seek to ignore it.

I have no problems with the fact that you are disappointed with the educational experiences your child/ren have. ie I don't disagree with you that this is the case.

I am purely attempting to explain to you why the statement you made is racist, and is considered to be by the law.

comet555

I got your point loud and clear, and it was a good one too. I thought the explanations were great.

Anyway..... our kids will be going to state schools. I believe the ones around us are pretty good so I won't have a problem sending them. Quite frankly I'm not always a big fan of private schools and I don't automatically think more expensive = better.

Religous schools are out. We're not religous at all and don't want our children exposed to it in any way. I had never thought about state schools teaching religion so I will definitely check on that when I'm talking to the schools. If there were any religion classes then I would take the kids out of the class. The only way I would leave them if it was a very general overview of different relgions, beliefs, etc. My daught will be going into prep next year so hopefully we've got a while before we have to worry about that!

Nerine

School should teach about religions in an objective and philosophical way not encourage religious practice. It encourages debate, tolerance and an appreciation of other cultures in the process.

This is something that the secular state schools in NZ would benefit from and it would go a long way towards countering some of the marked intolerances there.

debsy

The OP results for Qld can be viewed via the following link:
http://www.qsa.qld.edu.au/downloads/...utcomes_07.pdf

Personally, I think the state primary schools are great, however, I would not choose a state high school.

renth

Agreed. You just have to hop over to the immigration forum to read about the British people failing their IELTS tests. Effectively failing to prove that they can read, speak and comprehend their "mother tongue".

debsy

Sometimes people seem to think that if you have a foreign accent that your brain also has an accent.

Totally agree with you Renth.

why

my kids went to state primary school which was fine. then they both went to private lutheran secondary (about $4k each year) they have really good friends (no BMW stuff at all) most parents are working families who want a bit more for their kids. the state schools in the area are ok but have the mentality of "it's not cool to be a studious nerd" both my kids are nerdy. i wouldn't want to send them to elite expensive school, but i think for a few thousand dollars it's been well worth it. they have good friends and enjoy their lives and have done well.. they both have jobs and the eldest has chosen a career he wants. to be honest there are some nasty little thugs at the local state school and didn't want my kids hanging out with them. religion and religious study are not a big issue they have studied religion in general rather than having it rammed down their throats. i am really pleased with how it worked out . as i was really reluctant to spend my money (believing in socialist values) but this is the real world.
i have friends who complain about the school my kids go to but my experience has been really good. my kids are happy and well educated and that's all that counts.

Nerine

Absolutely right.

MartinH

I think to some extent the point is being missed.

Of course there are many examples of children going through the state school system and being very successful, just as there are examples of children in highly paid private education who turn out to be drug crazed axe wielding lunatics. But from a purely statistical point of view there is a much better chance of success (exam wise) for those in the private system - ON AVERAGE, that is indisputable.

Whether its the right decision for everyone is more open to discussion and that will depend on the motivation and personality of both the child and the parents.

DadAgain

Which conveniently ignored the question of 'cause & effect'

More private school gets get better grades than their publicly educated counterparts doesnt mean its because of the school.

It could just be that those kids who will get good grades are statistically more likely to be sent to private schools (since they statistically come from more wealthy, encouraging, motivating families).

May be if those same kids were sent to public schools they'd do just as well (or better?)...

Take 100 kids with uni lecturer parents and send them to a public school.. take 100 kids with unemployed crack-head parents and send them to an exculsive private school. Which group would you expect to perform better?

Some years ago when UK school league tables were created "Colchester Grammar School for Girls" (one of the few remaining publicly funded selective grammar schools in UK) came top of the list (or very near) for state-funded schools... the school principle said in a statement (I'm paraphrasing) "Of course we're proud, but to be honest it'd be a total scandal if we werent at the top of this list we are fortunate enough to be able to choose the brightest and best to attend our school and therefore anything less than the best results would indicate inferior performance for us as educators"...

N

why

and my point is that academic achievement isn't the most important thing. it's the whole experience of school
my daughter is a bright spark and went to an all girls grammar for year 7 with great teachers and facilities. she did well academically but hated it socially. she loves the school she's at now. it's about the kids and they way they are. private or not private it's got to be something that they like not what the parent thinks is going to be the best, they are all so different.

Big Galah

Then why make the insinuation that standards in public schools started to fall when kids with special needs were integrated into mainstream schooling? Absolutely apalling statement, and you know it too by the way you bracketed it in between your "It may be quite coincidental.." and "..the usual departmental rhetoric..." statements. You still made the point.


...lest they be exposed to kids who aren't "normal"?

Okay, I can see the merits of the "I only want to give my kids the best possible start in life" approach. But if your kids go to to private schools and, say, one day they came home with a boyfriend/girlfriend from the local public school, how would you feel then? Could you truly say you weren't a snob?

renth

I know for a fact that many Private schools have kids with special needs. Welsey college and John XXIII are two examples that I know of.

Nerine

I used to think bright kids would do well at school despite the quality of the education they received - the cream will always rise to the top. That was one of the reasons why we put the kids into state schools in NZ.

All I know is that they are happy in their present (fee paying) school they have a good social life, engage in sport and out of school activities, are motivated and respected by their well trained and well educated teachers....some of whom don't have English as their first language but are able to communicate well in it.....because the school can afford to pick and choose the staff it appoints.

There are some state schools in NZ and Oz that are high performing and they too have a better pool of applicants to choose from because quality teachers are more likely to be attracted to schools with good reputations. However, because of the zoning systems in many state schools parents often pay a premium to live in-zone, so one way or another there is going to be some form of inequality based on ability to pay. Like it or not we all get what we pay for, it's not fair but that's the way it is.

MartinH

I understand your argument but doesn't that reinforce the point? If you are in a private school you are statistically less likely to run into the kids with "unemployed crack-head parents"? The influence of peer pressure is significant.

I went to an inner city comprehensive and performed well DESPITE that peer influence. If I had gone to private school I would have performed much better.

I also agree that academic achievement is everything - but if academic excellence is what you are seeking then a private education is the route you should choose...........................statistically.