Schools! State V Private
#31
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Oz -> UK -> San Diego
Posts: 9,912
Re: Schools! State V Private
However, the sentence I am quoting above is truly racist. I am hoping that you actually mean that the teachers were not able to speak (and read and write???) English to mother tongue standard.
#32
...giving optimism a go?!
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Brisbane (leafy, hilly western suburbs)
Posts: 2,202
Re: Schools! State V Private
What if we are not religious as such and do not bring up our kids in that regard (morals yes, religion specifically no) - do our kids still have to attend Christianity (or any other?) religious classes as part of the Catholic school curriculum?
Having said that, if (like me) you find the whole idea of religion-tainted education as a bit distasteful you might want to really consider whether a religious school is going to work for you. I've heard some absolute horror stories of kids (primary school age) coming home from religious schools with heads full of 'facts' and telling their parents that eternity in hell (or purgatory or wherever its supposed to be?!) awaits them because of their failure to believe.
Unfortunately state schools are not immune to this and many of them run 'scripture' classes that are taught by a local volunteer from a church, just to 'introduce' kids to religious concepts. These are said to be 'voluntary' - but any child opting out may be asked to just sit in the library on their own while all the other kids get their head filled with Christian rhetoric. I'm all for religious education and woudl be very supportive of a 'comparative religion' program tuaght by a qualified teacher, but I'm a bit perplexed as to why a state school (supposedly inclusive and supportive of all cultures) would run such a clearly one-eyed program as this! - Check with your school, you never know what your kids are going to get their heads filled with!!!!
#33
Re: Schools! State V Private
Crocdileseamus, we have four kids too, so I think private will be out for us. The funny thing is I'd never considered private until I started listening in on some forum discussions. It's not that common here. I don't think you're doing your kids a disservice by sending them to State schools. Find a good one and your kids will do just as well.
My husband went to a private boarding school in NZ at great expense to his parents. He was unhappy, ran away several times, got into trouble with the law and was finally removed after doing poorly in exams despite being A streamed. Providing top knotch resources doesn't guarantee your child will do well and sending them to State doesn't mean they'll turn into bogans. I'd rather try and help them out at tertiary level, or after leaving school.
My husband went to a private boarding school in NZ at great expense to his parents. He was unhappy, ran away several times, got into trouble with the law and was finally removed after doing poorly in exams despite being A streamed. Providing top knotch resources doesn't guarantee your child will do well and sending them to State doesn't mean they'll turn into bogans. I'd rather try and help them out at tertiary level, or after leaving school.
#34
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,225
Re: Schools! State V Private
oh get outta here!! my kids literally couldn't understand what some of their teachers were saying to them. Good communication is essential for effective teaching....ever tried to learn Science in English heavily accented with Russian?
#35
Re: Schools! State V Private
Unfortunately state schools are not immune to this and many of them run 'scripture' classes that are taught by a local volunteer from a church, just to 'introduce' kids to religious concepts. These are said to be 'voluntary' - but any child opting out may be asked to just sit in the library on their own while all the other kids get their head filled with Christian rhetoric. I'm all for religious education and woudl be very supportive of a 'comparative religion' program tuaght by a qualified teacher, but I'm a bit perplexed as to why a state school (supposedly inclusive and supportive of all cultures) would run such a clearly one-eyed program as this! - Check with your school, you never know what your kids are going to get their heads filled with!!!!
The last straw was when this "teacher" from the church told one of the kids she was a scientist and there was no evidence at all to support the big bang theory, no, god had made the world in 7 days. :curse: Disgusting.
#36
Re: Schools! State V Private
I support what you say. We had a lecturer from China (I think) last semester and her heavy accent, along with difficulty articulating, made it extremely difficult (and boring) to sit through one of her lectures. Nothing racist about it. She was a lovely lady.
#37
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Oz -> UK -> San Diego
Posts: 9,912
Re: Schools! State V Private
With very few exceptions, A Russian does not have have English as a first language. The same as a Chinese born person. The same as a Brazilian. (They may have English mother-tongue expat parents etc, but that's rare)
By saying "English as first language", you are effectively saying "if you are not from an English-speaking country, you are not an acceptable teacher".
I know several French people whose English is remarkably better than that of the majority of people who speak English as a first language.
#38
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Oz -> UK -> San Diego
Posts: 9,912
Re: Schools! State V Private
I am saying that ANYONE from ANY country whose first language may not be English may well be qualified and able.
I am not for one second doubting either of the opinions above.
I am stating that "English as a first language" = is a racist comment. Hence it is illegal to use this statement or its equivalent in Australian and European job advertisements. (I dont know about other countries)
If the teacher can't communicate effectively - English as 1st language or 18th language, then they do not have the competency to do the jobs described above.
#39
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 46
Re: Schools! State V Private
I'm all for religious education and woudl be very supportive of a 'comparative religion' program tuaght by a qualified teacher, but I'm a bit perplexed as to why a state school (supposedly inclusive and supportive of all cultures) would run such a clearly one-eyed program as this!
I learn something new everyday!
#40
Re: Schools! State V Private
I would personally go for a state school, save the money and spend it with your kids during the holidays, travel the world with them, let them develop life skills and appreciation for other cultures through experience. Kids learn best from experiences and learning with their family. You also get to enjoy your hard earned money.
minibelle
minibelle
#41
Re: Schools! State V Private
The fee range of $3-20k per year, with Catholic schools at the lower "affordable" range of the private school spectrum - does this mean one has to be of religious bias in order to have their kids attending these schools?
What if we are not religious as such and do not bring up our kids in that regard (morals yes, religion specifically no) - do our kids still have to attend Christianity (or any other?) religious classes as part of the Catholic school curriculum?
What if we are not religious as such and do not bring up our kids in that regard (morals yes, religion specifically no) - do our kids still have to attend Christianity (or any other?) religious classes as part of the Catholic school curriculum?
#42
...giving optimism a go?!
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Brisbane (leafy, hilly western suburbs)
Posts: 2,202
Re: Schools! State V Private
so what does private education in the modern Australian society ... offer for non-Catholic kids or is the private education predominantly only meant for Catholics kids/kids with a Christian faith religious background?
the next largest sector would be Anglican/Lutheran.. (so still Christian)
I'm sure there are 1 or 2 Islamic and perhaps even Jewish schools around if you know where to look.
And there are a *few* private secular schools - BUT - these tend to be the 'top of the tree' in terms of costs - i.e. Brisbane Grammar@$15k/year
For us the ONLY high schools within a 1 hour commute that dont have a christian based program (assuming no stealthy 'scripture' program) would be 'The Gap State High School' (5minutes away - $0 per child) or 'Brisbane Girls Grammar' (30 minutes - $80k per child)...
Just remember - its all about CHOICE isnt it..
#43
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,225
Re: Schools! State V Private
I am not saying that such a person SHOULD or SHOULD not teach.
I am saying that ANYONE from ANY country whose first language may not be English may well be qualified and able.
I am not for one second doubting either of the opinions above.
I am stating that "English as a first language" = is a racist comment. Hence it is illegal to use this statement or its equivalent in Australian and European job advertisements. (I dont know about other countries)
If the teacher can't communicate effectively - English as 1st language or 18th language, then they do not have the competency to do the jobs described above.
I am saying that ANYONE from ANY country whose first language may not be English may well be qualified and able.
I am not for one second doubting either of the opinions above.
I am stating that "English as a first language" = is a racist comment. Hence it is illegal to use this statement or its equivalent in Australian and European job advertisements. (I dont know about other countries)
If the teacher can't communicate effectively - English as 1st language or 18th language, then they do not have the competency to do the jobs described above.
There is such a shortage of teachers in NZ that many principals admit they appoint teachers that they are less than happy with: bums on seats is the goal. Poor English language skills was just one factor that affected the standard of teaching kids received. Generally low standards of education amongst the teachers was another.
Teacher training selection standards criticised
As for racism....well my daughter was racially abused by her English teacher in front of her classmates when she asked her to clarify something she didn't understand. So not only was DD the victim of racism and ridiculed in front of her peers, but also, more importantly she never had her question answered. There were similar occurences in other classes.
Quite a few parents were worried about the quality of education their kids were receiving, it wasn't just the school principals that had concerns
Principals worried at quality of teachers
I don't know if the standards are better or worse in Australia compared to New Zealand. We'd put our faith in the state system in NZ and were let down badly, we weren't prepared to take the risk with our kids' education when we moved here.
So far, it has been absolutely the correct decision to opt for private education.
#44
Re: Schools! State V Private
I am not saying that such a person SHOULD or SHOULD not teach.
I am saying that ANYONE from ANY country whose first language may not be English may well be qualified and able.
I am not for one second doubting either of the opinions above.
I am stating that "English as a first language" = is a racist comment. Hence it is illegal to use this statement or its equivalent in Australian and European job advertisements. (I dont know about other countries)
If the teacher can't communicate effectively - English as 1st language or 18th language, then they do not have the competency to do the jobs described above.
I am saying that ANYONE from ANY country whose first language may not be English may well be qualified and able.
I am not for one second doubting either of the opinions above.
I am stating that "English as a first language" = is a racist comment. Hence it is illegal to use this statement or its equivalent in Australian and European job advertisements. (I dont know about other countries)
If the teacher can't communicate effectively - English as 1st language or 18th language, then they do not have the competency to do the jobs described above.
Agreed. We had other teachers for which English was not their first language and they were great teachers.
#45
Re: Schools! State V Private
Good point - so what does private education in the modern Australian society (comprised of so many different cultures) offer for non-Catholic kids or is the private education predominantly only meant for Catholics kids/kids with a Christian faith religious background?
I learn something new everyday!
I learn something new everyday!