Racism in OZ
Dec 3rd 2012, 8:49 pm
#61
Almost more Oz than Pom
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Brisbane northern suburbs
Posts: 1,154
Re: Racism in OZ
"Paki" is an offensive term in the UK because it originated as an offensive term, used by the skinheads and other extreme right wing morons to put down the immigrants in the 60's and 70's and convince themselves that they were superior. "Paki" is not offensive in Australia because the same conditions don't apply (except in cricket of course).
Dec 3rd 2012, 8:56 pm
#62
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Racism in OZ
"Paki" is an offensive term in the UK because it originated as an offensive term, used by the skinheads and other extreme right wing morons to put down the immigrants in the 60's and 70's and convince themselves that they were superior. "Paki" is not offensive in Australia because the same conditions don't apply (except in cricket of course).
Last edited by Pollyana; Dec 4th 2012 at 4:55 am. Reason: fixing the quote marks
Dec 3rd 2012, 11:08 pm
#64
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 371
Re: Racism in OZ
So Pakistani peoiple are not allowed to be offended by it in Australia? If a Pakistani person finds it offensive, it is offensive. I think it's similar to me being called a Paddy. I find it offensive. It's often not said in an offensive way but that doesn't cure to word of all offence. If it is used to describe an object (that has no association with Ireland), then it's not offensive.
Last edited by Pollyana; Dec 4th 2012 at 4:55 am. Reason: fixing the quote marks
Dec 3rd 2012, 11:16 pm
#65
Almost more Oz than Pom
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Brisbane northern suburbs
Posts: 1,154
Re: Racism in OZ
Originally Posted by Mr Grumpy
So Pakistani peoiple are not allowed to be offended by it in Australia? If a Pakistani person finds it offensive, it is offensive. I think it's similar to me being called a Paddy. I find it offensive. It's often not said in an offensive way but that doesn't cure to word of all offence. If it is used to describe an object (that has no association with Ireland), then it's not offensive.
If you don't like being called Paddy or Paki, then say so and unless the speaker is deliberately trying to insult you he will stop using the term.
Dec 3rd 2012, 11:46 pm
#66
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Racism in OZ
A Pakistani who comes to Australia from Bradford would probably object to being referred to as a Paki: one who came from Pakistan possibly wouldn't object. It all depends on what you perceive the intention of the speaker to be - the point I was making originally was that in the UK anyone using the term would be correctly perceived as being insulting, whereas most people in Australia would not take it that way.
If you don't like being called Paddy or Paki, then say so and unless the speaker is deliberately trying to insult you he will stop using the term.
If you don't like being called Paddy or Paki, then say so and unless the speaker is deliberately trying to insult you he will stop using the term.
I think this is a really silly point to be arguing about.
Dec 4th 2012, 1:17 am
#68
Coventry to Caloundra....
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Caloundra, Sunshine Coast, Queensland
Posts: 534
Re: Racism in OZ
I am just so sick of this international conspiracy of attacking Australia.
I have met Taiwanese people who believed Australians use to practice cannibalism.
I have met Malaysians who believe they will be shot if they walk on someone's property.
I have met a Polish guy who claimed Australia had slavery until the 1970s(despite the fact that Australia has never had slavery).
I have met Pakistanis who truly believed it was an Australian cultural practice to have sex with Dogs.
And I have met plenty of people from several countries who are shocked to find out that Australian women have the vote - despite the fact the colony of South Australia was second in the world to give women the vote in 1894(NZ in 1893) and that women got the Federal vote in 1902.
There really does seem to be some kind of organised international conspiracy spreading pure lies about Australians.
I have met Taiwanese people who believed Australians use to practice cannibalism.
I have met Malaysians who believe they will be shot if they walk on someone's property.
I have met a Polish guy who claimed Australia had slavery until the 1970s(despite the fact that Australia has never had slavery).
I have met Pakistanis who truly believed it was an Australian cultural practice to have sex with Dogs.
And I have met plenty of people from several countries who are shocked to find out that Australian women have the vote - despite the fact the colony of South Australia was second in the world to give women the vote in 1894(NZ in 1893) and that women got the Federal vote in 1902.
There really does seem to be some kind of organised international conspiracy spreading pure lies about Australians.
did you meet all of these people in the same bar?
Dec 4th 2012, 1:21 am
#69
Coventry to Caloundra....
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Caloundra, Sunshine Coast, Queensland
Posts: 534
Re: Racism in OZ
I'm a black Londoner living in Sydney. Been here for 3 fun years.
Sydney is OK for racism but it's about 25 years behind the UK. You will need a think skin and be prepared to get stared at A LOT. There is a mixed relationship hierarchy which dictates that white male with a girl of any racial background OK, black male with white woman not so good. This gets even worse if the girl is blonde. Black guy with a blonde girl seems to send some sections of the Anglo-Aussie male population quite mental.
Many white Australian males will openly stare and comment on you and your man. When called out on it, they tend to back up pretty quick but be aware.
Aussie women can also be quite nasty after a few drinks. Many are conservative, ignorant and rather proud of it.
But, don't let me put you off, you just have to remember that even in 2012 real live black faces are still quite rare here.
Many Aussies even in urban areas will never have spoken to a black person in their entire lives.
Groups of Aussie males on the drink can often make 'smart' comments to black guys to look big and brave in front of their mates. The key here is that they are only brave enough to do it a) pissed b) with a crew. The moment I don't play ball and don't laugh off the comment, they always shut up.
In summary: Australia is much more overtly vocally racist than the UK but Australian racists are big girls blouses and easily silenced compared to UK. ones.
Sydney is OK for racism but it's about 25 years behind the UK. You will need a think skin and be prepared to get stared at A LOT. There is a mixed relationship hierarchy which dictates that white male with a girl of any racial background OK, black male with white woman not so good. This gets even worse if the girl is blonde. Black guy with a blonde girl seems to send some sections of the Anglo-Aussie male population quite mental.
Many white Australian males will openly stare and comment on you and your man. When called out on it, they tend to back up pretty quick but be aware.
Aussie women can also be quite nasty after a few drinks. Many are conservative, ignorant and rather proud of it.
But, don't let me put you off, you just have to remember that even in 2012 real live black faces are still quite rare here.
Many Aussies even in urban areas will never have spoken to a black person in their entire lives.
Groups of Aussie males on the drink can often make 'smart' comments to black guys to look big and brave in front of their mates. The key here is that they are only brave enough to do it a) pissed b) with a crew. The moment I don't play ball and don't laugh off the comment, they always shut up.
In summary: Australia is much more overtly vocally racist than the UK but Australian racists are big girls blouses and easily silenced compared to UK. ones.
Dec 4th 2012, 1:22 am
#70
Coventry to Caloundra....
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Caloundra, Sunshine Coast, Queensland
Posts: 534
Re: Racism in OZ
Sadly, it is officially racist, yes. Your friend heard right. It is government policy. We all go on training courses when we get here to learn how to be racist to anyone who doesn't look like an extra from a Nevile Shute film. Everywhere you look - racists. Even the kangaroos are slightly racist.
Your friend should try America again because there is no racism there at all.
Your friend should try America again because there is no racism there at all.
Dec 4th 2012, 1:30 am
#71
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Not Brisbane
Posts: 1,210
Re: Racism in OZ
I am just so sick of this international conspiracy of attacking Australia.
I have met Taiwanese people who believed Australians use to practice cannibalism.
I have met Malaysians who believe they will be shot if they walk on someone's property.
I have met a Polish guy who claimed Australia had slavery until the 1970s(despite the fact that Australia has never had slavery).
I have met Pakistanis who truly believed it was an Australian cultural practice to have sex with Dogs.
And I have met plenty of people from several countries who are shocked to find out that Australian women have the vote - despite the fact the colony of South Australia was second in the world to give women the vote in 1894(NZ in 1893) and that women got the Federal vote in 1902.
There really does seem to be some kind of organised international conspiracy spreading pure lies about Australians.
I have met Taiwanese people who believed Australians use to practice cannibalism.
I have met Malaysians who believe they will be shot if they walk on someone's property.
I have met a Polish guy who claimed Australia had slavery until the 1970s(despite the fact that Australia has never had slavery).
I have met Pakistanis who truly believed it was an Australian cultural practice to have sex with Dogs.
And I have met plenty of people from several countries who are shocked to find out that Australian women have the vote - despite the fact the colony of South Australia was second in the world to give women the vote in 1894(NZ in 1893) and that women got the Federal vote in 1902.
There really does seem to be some kind of organised international conspiracy spreading pure lies about Australians.
Dec 4th 2012, 1:35 am
#72
Coventry to Caloundra....
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Caloundra, Sunshine Coast, Queensland
Posts: 534
Re: Racism in OZ
Thanks to most of you for the constructive answers - particularly monkeyalan, bignick, chochobnob and chris955. The rest of you cheers for the unhelpful douche bag replies. It was a genuine question so to those of you who gave your opinions thank you. I'm not really sure why it's so outrageous to ask such a thing, perhaps it was the way I worded it.
No problem with the visa side to those who mentioned it, they are both under 30 and qualify for working holiday visas.
Point taken about the USA. I have only ever travelled there and am not an expert on racial problems there either.
No problem with the visa side to those who mentioned it, they are both under 30 and qualify for working holiday visas.
Point taken about the USA. I have only ever travelled there and am not an expert on racial problems there either.
Dec 4th 2012, 1:37 am
#73
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Racism in OZ
Not disagreeing with everyone being an idiot, mind you.
Dec 4th 2012, 3:34 am
#74
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Racism in OZ
And how would you know if a Pakistani is to be offended by the term or not, or whether he has travelled to England before and being attacked with that word? I think it's fair to say that if you aware of the term being offensive, then think whether you should user it or not.
It's a moot point whether he or she finds it offensive because of knowing the connotation from the UK. Individuals might even make allowances.
To be honest, it's really only a word but then Pom can be bad, Brit good!
I think it can be different in Australia.
Dec 4th 2012, 4:18 am
#75
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 89
Re: Racism in OZ
It's an odd one this and I sometimes think it comes down to how you define racism.
I've found that Australians - colleagues and friends will make remarks about race - generally thoughtless or banter - that would be unthinkable in the UK where even asking what someone's 'country of origin' is can be problematic.
Now occassionally I react to that as mild racism, although I'm sure it's not in the intent of the speaker.
I have seen signs of racism here such as the 'F**k off, we're full" bumper stickers, but on the other hand, Australian friends point out that they don't have the equivalent of the BNP here. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.
A racist country? I'm not sure there's any such animal, but Australian social conventions and use of language is different to the UK's. In some cases that will come across as racist and in some cases it will be genuinely racist but on the other hand - this is a country where a huge part of the population are from somewhere else - their take on this is bound to be different.
I've found that Australians - colleagues and friends will make remarks about race - generally thoughtless or banter - that would be unthinkable in the UK where even asking what someone's 'country of origin' is can be problematic.
Now occassionally I react to that as mild racism, although I'm sure it's not in the intent of the speaker.
I have seen signs of racism here such as the 'F**k off, we're full" bumper stickers, but on the other hand, Australian friends point out that they don't have the equivalent of the BNP here. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.
A racist country? I'm not sure there's any such animal, but Australian social conventions and use of language is different to the UK's. In some cases that will come across as racist and in some cases it will be genuinely racist but on the other hand - this is a country where a huge part of the population are from somewhere else - their take on this is bound to be different.