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Old Jun 29th 2017, 6:29 am   #91
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Originally Posted by Scottishedo View Post
Are the state schools bad in this area? It looks gorgeous but of course hard to tell in pictures.
In general they are new, which means they don't have the long track record of those in the east. They also have fair number of immigrants kids, which is both good (chinese tiger mums) and bad (english comprehension isn't great).

The first house I sent was in the catchment for Alamanda, which tends to do well in ranking and thus lots of tricks to get kids into are played. Others also have some good rep in the area. Some have charges (even government schools) - it's all a bit different from the UK.

This might help : https://bettereducation.com.au/schoo...y_schools.aspx

In the end I'd take things with a pinch of salt and concentrate on seeing for yourself. Not sure what the schools are like in your part of scotland, but I've always thought its more on the kid than anything.
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Old Jun 29th 2017, 6:34 am   #92
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Yes, in Point Cook the only zoned public secondary school (Point Cook Senior Secondary College) is very poor. They are not particularly academic focused and even have schemes for studying trades. Kids are very scruffy, often found smoking and loitering around the town centre, including a few fights in which police have had to be called. The local retailers are not happy about their behaviour.
Hmm, well you see some in the town centre after school kicks out (no surprise there) and they are the usual schoolkid-in-uniform-but-doesnt-want-to-be look. Don't think I have ever seen one smoke, which is surprising when you think about it, nor them causing any trouble. Always seem to hang around at Nandos for some reason.

I can say for certain, where I went to school was much worse
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Old Jun 29th 2017, 6:50 am   #93
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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In general they are new, which means they don't have the long track record of those in the east. They also have fair number of immigrants kids, which is both good (chinese tiger mums) and bad (english comprehension isn't great).

The first house I sent was in the catchment for Alamanda, which tends to do well in ranking and thus lots of tricks to get kids into are played. Others also have some good rep in the area. Some have charges (even government schools) - it's all a bit different from the UK.

This might help : https://bettereducation.com.au/schoo...y_schools.aspx

In the end I'd take things with a pinch of salt and concentrate on seeing for yourself. Not sure what the schools are like in your part of scotland, but I've always thought its more on the kid than anything.
Thanks.

The school my girls go to here is fantastic and the secondary they are due to go to is also a really good school, which makes me anxious about moving them to a potentially worse school. You are right though wherever they go to school the onus is mostly on them to apply themselves and do their best.
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Old Jun 29th 2017, 6:51 am   #94
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Hmm, well you see some in the town centre after school kicks out (no surprise there) and they are the usual schoolkid-in-uniform-but-doesnt-want-to-be look. Don't think I have ever seen one smoke, which is surprising when you think about it, nor them causing any trouble. Always seem to hang around at Nandos for some reason.

I can say for certain, where I went to school was much worse
I know the look you mean my 11 yr old does her best to look like that most days 😂
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Old Jun 29th 2017, 6:55 am   #95
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Hmm, well you see some in the town centre after school kicks out (no surprise there) and they are the usual schoolkid-in-uniform-but-doesnt-want-to-be look. Don't think I have ever seen one smoke, which is surprising when you think about it, nor them causing any trouble. Always seem to hang around at Nandos for some reason.

I can say for certain, where I went to school was much worse
There was quite a lot in the local news about it.

Star Weekly | Gang brawl at Point Cook prompts police talks - Star Weekly

Star Weekly | Teens menace traders at Point Cook shops
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Old Jun 29th 2017, 8:29 am   #96
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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OK, well put it like this - I've never seen it.

All you tend to see are the usual groups of 4-5 teens wandering around looking sullen and as if the world is out to get them. There's a bit round a corner where there's a basketball hoop (mainly because they want to do something with a bit of waste ground it seems) but even when I've been past there, I've not seen anything.

Certainly much less than "chavs hanging around outside McDs" that you'd get in the UK.

I've seen tougher skin on a rice pudding.

Anyway, I realise that in this devolving to the usual east vs west 'discussion', I've not really given what the OP points on Melbourne housing from my perspective, so :
  1. The newer estates have both the good and bad of all being built together, and often by the same builder. What that means is that you get a certain 'saminess' in the design style from a particular era, in a particular area, which to a Brit bought up on houses built up over hundreds of years leads to a 'ticky tacky houses' feel. When I first turn up here that turned me off of the west, so I roamed over most of the east, looking at places. Here however came the 'silly price for a hovel' issue, and generally the construction of anything prior to 1990s is terrible. They are built with sod all insulation, just weatherboard, and leak heat like you wouldn't believe. It will be a shock for a Brit how double glazing is almost unknown here. The newer the house, the higher were the construction standards they had to hit. That sent me back to the west where I found an 'interesting' area. You get used to it.
  2. Melbourne, maybe Australia as a whole, has a thing for a 'blocky' architectural style. Squared off and slab sided is everywhere, with arty being to put the block at a dutch angle. eg



    It's not my esthetic and you end up craving some curves. I guess it's not just that its cheap, given its on sculptures, but ...
  3. The one main thing I miss from the UK is real verdant green. Obviously they have green here, parks etc., but the green is green+brown to my eyes and obviously in the summer it tends to turn to yellows and browns. Flip side of not having as much rain as the UK (or indeed scotland) - can't have everything. As said elsewhere, it's closer to the south of france in terms of climate.
  4. You tend to get things like air con as standard (big surprise), ducted gas heating (on new houses), alarm system, a remote controlled double garage (in the suburbs), gas cooker, dishwasher, etc. However, particularly in the older houses and even in some newer ones, things can be missing, so be alert. There is something of a standard; the 4 bed, 2 bath, 2 garage detached house in the suburbs. Roads usually have 'nature strips' and planted trees on them, and on the newer roads the front gardens tend to be fenceless.
  5. The local right wing party has made a screaming mess of rolling out fibre networking (the NBN) which has led to some areas having fibre to the house, and some still having ADSL, if that. It can be a major issue, and it can be difficult to work out rhyme or reasons for it. Checking, understanding, and not trusting the estate agent is definitely something to be aware of.
  6. People talk of crime, and certainly there is some. However, I'd suggest it does tend to get overblown. It doesn't particularly feel onerous or troublesome (well maybe in parts of the CBD), and although there's violence associated with drugs, it's usually them shooting each other, not other people.
  7. One last thing that surprised me, related to education. Unlike the UK there is a thing here for kids to attend a university in the city they grew up, and stay living at home - whereas in the UK that's the last thing they would do. Not sure it's entirely healthy, but probably means the kids would hang around longer.
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Old Jun 29th 2017, 9:05 am   #97
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
OK, well put it like this - I've never seen it.

All you tend to see are the usual groups of 4-5 teens wandering around looking sullen and as if the world is out to get them. There's a bit round a corner where there's a basketball hoop (mainly because they want to do something with a bit of waste ground it seems) but even when I've been past there, I've not seen anything.

Certainly much less than "chavs hanging around outside McDs" that you'd get in the UK.

I've seen tougher skin on a rice pudding.

Anyway, I realise that in this devolving to the usual east vs west 'discussion', I've not really given what the OP points on Melbourne housing from my perspective, so :
  1. The newer estates have both the good and bad of all being built together, and often by the same builder. What that means is that you get a certain 'saminess' in the design style from a particular era, in a particular area, which to a Brit bought up on houses built up over hundreds of years leads to a 'ticky tacky houses' feel. When I first turn up here that turned me off of the west, so I roamed over most of the east, looking at places. Here however came the 'silly price for a hovel' issue, and generally the construction of anything prior to 1990s is terrible. They are built with sod all insulation, just weatherboard, and leak heat like you wouldn't believe. It will be a shock for a Brit how double glazing is almost unknown here. The newer the house, the higher were the construction standards they had to hit. That sent me back to the west where I found an 'interesting' area. You get used to it.
  2. Melbourne, maybe Australia as a whole, has a thing for a 'blocky' architectural style. Squared off and slab sided is everywhere, with arty being to put the block at a dutch angle. eg

    http://nested.typepad.com/.a/6a00e00...fb22c3c970c-pi

    It's not my esthetic and you end up craving some curves. I guess it's not just that its cheap, given its on sculptures, but ...
  3. The one main thing I miss from the UK is real verdant green. Obviously they have green here, parks etc., but the green is green+brown to my eyes and obviously in the summer it tends to turn to yellows and browns. Flip side of not having as much rain as the UK (or indeed scotland) - can't have everything. As said elsewhere, it's closer to the south of france in terms of climate.
  4. You tend to get things like air con as standard (big surprise), ducted gas heating (on new houses), alarm system, a remote controlled double garage (in the suburbs), gas cooker, dishwasher, etc. However, particularly in the older houses and even in some newer ones, things can be missing, so be alert. There is something of a standard; the 4 bed, 2 bath, 2 garage detached house in the suburbs. Roads usually have 'nature strips' and planted trees on them, and on the newer roads the front gardens tend to be fenceless.
  5. The local right wing party has made a screaming mess of rolling out fibre networking (the NBN) which has led to some areas having fibre to the house, and some still having ADSL, if that. It can be a major issue, and it can be difficult to work out rhyme or reasons for it. Checking, understanding, and not trusting the estate agent is definitely something to be aware of.
  6. People talk of crime, and certainly there is some. However, I'd suggest it does tend to get overblown. It doesn't particularly feel onerous or troublesome (well maybe in parts of the CBD), and although there's violence associated with drugs, it's usually them shooting each other, not other people.
  7. One last thing that surprised me, related to education. Unlike the UK there is a thing here for kids to attend a university in the city they grew up, and stay living at home - whereas in the UK that's the last thing they would do. Not sure it's entirely healthy, but probably means the kids would hang around longer.
Thanks Garry some great point here to think about! My head is spinning with it all and the need to make a decision is about her tbh!
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Old Jun 29th 2017, 2:02 pm   #98
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Unless I am in the wrong thread, the OP had a large family and needed a home with 4 bedrooms and car parking for one or two cars.

That would cost a bloody fortune to rent in any inner city trendy suburb. Heaps of those little cottages dont even have parking off road, some dont even have a permit.
Park on street. That's where cars belong.
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Old Jun 29th 2017, 2:09 pm   #99
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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In all seriousness I think you'll would find most Melburnians born and bred would prefer the Prahran option. Housing prices bear this seemingly hard to swallow fact out.


When I see those outer estate pictures, I anticipate acute summer dryness, stark brown vistas and tumble weed not to mention massive soul sapping traffic jams as people attempt to find there way back to civilisationn. Not to mention bogans doing burnouts and doughnuts at 3AM.


Those outer estates are for new migrants, and first home buyers.

I for one would gladly take the Prahran rental over the outer rental.
Me too. Just because a house is bigger and newer is no incentive for me.

Time is money. So is commuting.

Its all about location. Land value is where the money is. Buy close in now, reap the rewards later.

Speaking of which, when I think of Melbourne housing, I can never get this one out of my head. Blame the movie

http://www.onthehouse.com.au/16307637/1_3_dagonet_st_strathmore_vic_3041
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Old Jun 29th 2017, 5:14 pm   #100
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Me too. Just because a house is bigger and newer is no incentive for me.

Time is money. So is commuting.

Its all about location. Land value is where the money is. Buy close in now, reap the rewards later.

Speaking of which, when I think of Melbourne housing, I can never get this one out of my head. Blame the movie

Onthehouse.com.au: Your Home for Property Research
I knew that was close by, at 5 Ks away, but what I didn't realise it's in a direct straight line between us and Essendon airport, so I live under the same flight path. The planes are a lot higher when they go over me, but still fairly low, not enough to hear them in the house though.

Been there and read the Gas Meter, back in my Meter reading days.
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Old Jun 30th 2017, 12:38 am   #101
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

From what I hear, housing in Melbourne's western suburbs is often geared towards migrant families. I know that the schools in that part of the city don't have a great reputation.
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Old Jun 30th 2017, 12:41 am   #102
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

Let me add, as that post is worded unintentionally poorly. I was not implying that migrant families = schools that don't have a great reputation. Two completely different thoughts. Melbourne has lots of migrant families in many regions in the city. The schools in the western suburbs specifically, for whatever reason, don't have a great reputation.
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Old Jun 30th 2017, 2:16 am   #103
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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I knew that was close by, at 5 Ks away, but what I didn't realise it's in a direct straight line between us and Essendon airport, so I live under the same flight path. The planes are a lot higher when they go over me, but still fairly low, not enough to hear them in the house though.

Been there and read the Gas Meter, back in my Meter reading days.
Strange that for some people a house under a flight path would be heaven! Back home I used to have constant traffic overhead from Shoreham (admittedly small aircraft), here my place often gets traffic descending towards Brisbane Airport, not very low, but low enough to be heaven if yoiu love planes! While in the UK this year I spent a couple of weeks staying with a friend who lives under the approach for Heathrow, about 2 tube stops from the airport - close enough to identify tails & airlines, aircraft size/make etc. The noise while in the garden wasn't too great as I expected, even for people that aren't aircraft nerds, and after a few days I didn't really notice it. Indoors the double glazing deadened it all.
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Old Jun 30th 2017, 4:14 am   #104
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Strange that for some people a house under a flight path would be heaven! Back home I used to have constant traffic overhead from Shoreham (admittedly small aircraft), here my place often gets traffic descending towards Brisbane Airport, not very low, but low enough to be heaven if yoiu love planes! While in the UK this year I spent a couple of weeks staying with a friend who lives under the approach for Heathrow, about 2 tube stops from the airport - close enough to identify tails & airlines, aircraft size/make etc. The noise while in the garden wasn't too great as I expected, even for people that aren't aircraft nerds, and after a few days I didn't really notice it. Indoors the double glazing deadened it all.
London - Richmond, Barnes, etc.

Sydney - Stanmore, Hunters Hill, Leichhardt

Lovely expensive areas with relentless commercial air traffic.

As a friend of mine in Petersham once said "you know visitors to the area. They are the ones looking up"
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Old Jun 30th 2017, 6:34 am   #105
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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OK, well put it like this - I've never seen it.

All you tend to see are the usual groups of 4-5 teens wandering around looking sullen and as if the world is out to get them. There's a bit round a corner where there's a basketball hoop (mainly because they want to do something with a bit of waste ground it seems) but even when I've been past there, I've not seen anything.

Certainly much less than "chavs hanging around outside McDs" that you'd get in the UK.

I've seen tougher skin on a rice pudding.

Anyway, I realise that in this devolving to the usual east vs west 'discussion', I've not really given what the OP points on Melbourne housing from my perspective, so :
  1. The newer estates have both the good and bad of all being built together, and often by the same builder. What that means is that you get a certain 'saminess' in the design style from a particular era, in a particular area, which to a Brit bought up on houses built up over hundreds of years leads to a 'ticky tacky houses' feel. When I first turn up here that turned me off of the west, so I roamed over most of the east, looking at places. Here however came the 'silly price for a hovel' issue, and generally the construction of anything prior to 1990s is terrible. They are built with sod all insulation, just weatherboard, and leak heat like you wouldn't believe. It will be a shock for a Brit how double glazing is almost unknown here. The newer the house, the higher were the construction standards they had to hit. That sent me back to the west where I found an 'interesting' area. You get used to it.
  2. Melbourne, maybe Australia as a whole, has a thing for a 'blocky' architectural style. Squared off and slab sided is everywhere, with arty being to put the block at a dutch angle. eg

    http://nested.typepad.com/.a/6a00e00...fb22c3c970c-pi

    It's not my esthetic and you end up craving some curves. I guess it's not just that its cheap, given its on sculptures, but ...
  3. The one main thing I miss from the UK is real verdant green. Obviously they have green here, parks etc., but the green is green+brown to my eyes and obviously in the summer it tends to turn to yellows and browns. Flip side of not having as much rain as the UK (or indeed scotland) - can't have everything. As said elsewhere, it's closer to the south of france in terms of climate.
  4. You tend to get things like air con as standard (big surprise), ducted gas heating (on new houses), alarm system, a remote controlled double garage (in the suburbs), gas cooker, dishwasher, etc. However, particularly in the older houses and even in some newer ones, things can be missing, so be alert. There is something of a standard; the 4 bed, 2 bath, 2 garage detached house in the suburbs. Roads usually have 'nature strips' and planted trees on them, and on the newer roads the front gardens tend to be fenceless.
  5. The local right wing party has made a screaming mess of rolling out fibre networking (the NBN) which has led to some areas having fibre to the house, and some still having ADSL, if that. It can be a major issue, and it can be difficult to work out rhyme or reasons for it. Checking, understanding, and not trusting the estate agent is definitely something to be aware of.
  6. People talk of crime, and certainly there is some. However, I'd suggest it does tend to get overblown. It doesn't particularly feel onerous or troublesome (well maybe in parts of the CBD), and although there's violence associated with drugs, it's usually them shooting each other, not other people.
  7. One last thing that surprised me, related to education. Unlike the UK there is a thing here for kids to attend a university in the city they grew up, and stay living at home - whereas in the UK that's the last thing they would do. Not sure it's entirely healthy, but probably means the kids would hang around longer.
All good points which I could agree with, and you've picked houses according to budget but the advice for new migrants is that estates aren't for everyone particularly as they tend to be the affordable option. Many a migrant has been seduced by 4 beds and a movie theatre.
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