Questions, questions - Melbourne
#76
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
Well, yes it is relevant, and because it explains why I have no time for it.
The 'noble savage' was a trope that arose originally from religion - suggesting that various 'aboriginal' types were closer to the garden of eden, living a more natural life, in touch with the natural cycles, etc. Sound like anything you still hear today?
That then transitioned over a period of time into racist idea that they were children, unable to take care of themselves, and when violence arose, well it was 'evil' and needed to get stamped out in typically religious fashion.
What the 'noble savage' does is setup a group not to a standard and expectation that says equality - it sets them apart, and measures them against some idealised eden.
And saying that that 'noble savage' idea of aboriginal culture is somehow the culture of modern day australia is not only a lie, it also sets up for the problems that arise when reality and myth meet - and people get that dissonance that their idea of myth and 'culture' that they have appropriated aren't real.
The 'noble savage' was a trope that arose originally from religion - suggesting that various 'aboriginal' types were closer to the garden of eden, living a more natural life, in touch with the natural cycles, etc. Sound like anything you still hear today?
That then transitioned over a period of time into racist idea that they were children, unable to take care of themselves, and when violence arose, well it was 'evil' and needed to get stamped out in typically religious fashion.
What the 'noble savage' does is setup a group not to a standard and expectation that says equality - it sets them apart, and measures them against some idealised eden.
And saying that that 'noble savage' idea of aboriginal culture is somehow the culture of modern day australia is not only a lie, it also sets up for the problems that arise when reality and myth meet - and people get that dissonance that their idea of myth and 'culture' that they have appropriated aren't real.
Still doesn't negate the fact that Australia's history didn't begin with European colonisation though!
#77
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
Prahran has some great areas and housing. Established avenues and trees. Most people won't recognise any innate superiority of the W over the established E. You're a puzzle, Garry.
#78
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
The discussion about Aboriginal culture etc has become political rather than anthropological (I mean in society, not in this forum).
As someone earlier noted - there are hundreds of tribes and Aboriginal languages across Australia. "Aboriginals" are not a unified bloc - they are/were foreign to each other.
However they are treated as a unified bloc, because of what I call "unconscious Euro-centrism," which is practised by those who would (ironically) be the most horrified to be called Euro-centric.
Case in point: Which tribe invented the boomerang? They were not used universally across Australia, and neither were didgeridoos. Tools used were highly habitat- and climate-specific. I stayed with an Aboriginal artist up north last year who was carving out and selling elaborate boomerangs - he was very happy to explain to me (which I later confirmed researching it when I got home) how his tribe up north never used them, they were used by tribes in (if I remember) Queensland.
So, who is going to go and accuse this guy - and all the other Aboriginal artists who make boomerangs - of cultural appropriation, because he is not from one of those tribes in Queensland that made or used them?
It will of course never happen.
As someone earlier noted - there are hundreds of tribes and Aboriginal languages across Australia. "Aboriginals" are not a unified bloc - they are/were foreign to each other.
However they are treated as a unified bloc, because of what I call "unconscious Euro-centrism," which is practised by those who would (ironically) be the most horrified to be called Euro-centric.
Case in point: Which tribe invented the boomerang? They were not used universally across Australia, and neither were didgeridoos. Tools used were highly habitat- and climate-specific. I stayed with an Aboriginal artist up north last year who was carving out and selling elaborate boomerangs - he was very happy to explain to me (which I later confirmed researching it when I got home) how his tribe up north never used them, they were used by tribes in (if I remember) Queensland.
So, who is going to go and accuse this guy - and all the other Aboriginal artists who make boomerangs - of cultural appropriation, because he is not from one of those tribes in Queensland that made or used them?
It will of course never happen.
#79
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
The discussion about Aboriginal culture etc has become political rather than anthropological (I mean in society, not in this forum).
As someone earlier noted - there are hundreds of tribes and Aboriginal languages across Australia. "Aboriginals" are not a unified bloc - they are/were foreign to each other.
However they are treated as a unified bloc, because of what I call "unconscious Euro-centrism," which is practised by those who would (ironically) be the most horrified to be called Euro-centric.
Case in point: Which tribe invented the boomerang? They were not used universally across Australia, and neither were didgeridoos. Tools used were highly habitat- and climate-specific. I stayed with an Aboriginal artist up north last year who was carving out and selling elaborate boomerangs - he was very happy to explain to me (which I later confirmed researching it when I got home) how his tribe up north never used them, they were used by tribes in (if I remember) Queensland.
So, who is going to go and accuse this guy - and all the other Aboriginal artists who make boomerangs - of cultural appropriation, because he is not from one of those tribes in Queensland that made or used them?
It will of course never happen.
As someone earlier noted - there are hundreds of tribes and Aboriginal languages across Australia. "Aboriginals" are not a unified bloc - they are/were foreign to each other.
However they are treated as a unified bloc, because of what I call "unconscious Euro-centrism," which is practised by those who would (ironically) be the most horrified to be called Euro-centric.
Case in point: Which tribe invented the boomerang? They were not used universally across Australia, and neither were didgeridoos. Tools used were highly habitat- and climate-specific. I stayed with an Aboriginal artist up north last year who was carving out and selling elaborate boomerangs - he was very happy to explain to me (which I later confirmed researching it when I got home) how his tribe up north never used them, they were used by tribes in (if I remember) Queensland.
So, who is going to go and accuse this guy - and all the other Aboriginal artists who make boomerangs - of cultural appropriation, because he is not from one of those tribes in Queensland that made or used them?
It will of course never happen.
#80
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
See my view is that this :
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place...ce8e0?hl=en-AU
isn't superior to this :
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place...045675218cdc90
particularly when you take into account what your budget will actually get you.
This:
37 Earl Street Prahran Vic 3181 - House for Rent #421334766 - realestate.com.au
vs this
38 Shaftsbury Boulevard Point Cook Vic 3030 - House for Rent #421382442 - realestate.com.au
Strange that, ain't it?
#81
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
Well, that's a bit of a movement, although I think you missed the point quite a bit. 'Noble savage' overlaps with, but isn't cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation doesn't explain the stolen generation.
Australia, as a country and culture that you know, did start two centuries back . What it replaced might as well be a chocolate box picture.
'some' .... well maybe you are adjusting.
See my view is that this :
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place...ce8e0?hl=en-AU
isn't superior to this :
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place...045675218cdc90
particularly when you take into account what your budget will actually get you.
This:
37 Earl Street Prahran Vic 3181 - House for Rent #421334766 - realestate.com.au
vs this
38 Shaftsbury Boulevard Point Cook Vic 3030 - House for Rent #421382442 - realestate.com.au
Strange that, ain't it?
Australia, as a country and culture that you know, did start two centuries back . What it replaced might as well be a chocolate box picture.
'some' .... well maybe you are adjusting.
See my view is that this :
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place...ce8e0?hl=en-AU
isn't superior to this :
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place...045675218cdc90
particularly when you take into account what your budget will actually get you.
This:
37 Earl Street Prahran Vic 3181 - House for Rent #421334766 - realestate.com.au
vs this
38 Shaftsbury Boulevard Point Cook Vic 3030 - House for Rent #421382442 - realestate.com.au
Strange that, ain't it?
In all seriousness I think you'll would find most Melburnians born and bred would prefer the Prahran option. Housing prices bear this seemingly hard to swallow fact out.
When I see those outer estate pictures, I anticipate acute summer dryness, stark brown vistas and tumble weed not to mention massive soul sapping traffic jams as people attempt to find there way back to civilisationn. Not to mention bogans doing burnouts and doughnuts at 3AM.
Those outer estates are for new migrants, and first home buyers.
I for one would gladly take the Prahran rental over the outer rental.
Last edited by ozzieeagle; Jun 29th 2017 at 2:44 am.
#82
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
And while we are on feel, have you notice that most of the inner east have high unfriendly front walls and fences, in contrast to the more open design of the newer suburbs?
I will agree that traffic needs improvement as infrastructure hasn't kept up with the progress of building - but it is improving and the eastern suburbs are already totally gummed up, and are even worse for being able to cope with the normal level of cars (see all of them parked down either side of the narrow street?)
#83
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,375
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
Unless I am in the wrong thread, the OP had a large family and needed a home with 4 bedrooms and car parking for one or two cars.
That would cost a bloody fortune to rent in any inner city trendy suburb. Heaps of those little cottages dont even have parking off road, some dont even have a permit.
That would cost a bloody fortune to rent in any inner city trendy suburb. Heaps of those little cottages dont even have parking off road, some dont even have a permit.
#84
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
Unless I am in the wrong thread, the OP had a large family and needed a home with 4 bedrooms and car parking for one or two cars.
That would cost a bloody fortune to rent in any inner city trendy suburb. Heaps of those little cottages dont even have parking off road, some dont even have a permit.
That would cost a bloody fortune to rent in any inner city trendy suburb. Heaps of those little cottages dont even have parking off road, some dont even have a permit.
I think this thread is illustrating how multi faceted Melbourne is.
#85
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Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Epsom
Posts: 1,705
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
Unless I am in the wrong thread, the OP had a large family and needed a home with 4 bedrooms and car parking for one or two cars.
That would cost a bloody fortune to rent in any inner city trendy suburb. Heaps of those little cottages dont even have parking off road, some dont even have a permit.
That would cost a bloody fortune to rent in any inner city trendy suburb. Heaps of those little cottages dont even have parking off road, some dont even have a permit.
2/7 Melinga Crescent Chadstone Vic 3148 - Townhouse for Rent #410898699 - realestate.com.au
24 Bethell Street Ormond Vic 3204 - House for Rent #421261790 - realestate.com.au
#86
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
Yes, but there are plenty of more establish suburbs that are a hell of a lot better than living out west.
2/7 Melinga Crescent Chadstone Vic 3148 - Townhouse for Rent #410898699 - realestate.com.au
24 Bethell Street Ormond Vic 3204 - House for Rent #421261790 - realestate.com.au
2/7 Melinga Crescent Chadstone Vic 3148 - Townhouse for Rent #410898699 - realestate.com.au
24 Bethell Street Ormond Vic 3204 - House for Rent #421261790 - realestate.com.au
So, all in all, about twice as expensive.
Now, if you are happy with twice as much, well, knock yourself out. Doesn't really make sense to me. And a few others I think, since it appears that second one has cut it's advertised rent (started at $700) - couldn't find any takers?
Here's the equivalent in the west, on the lakes ; 4 Watersedge cove Sanctuary Lakes Vic 3030 - House for Rent #417231994 - realestate.com.au
#87
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Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Epsom
Posts: 1,705
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
Here's the equivalent in the west, on the lakes ; 4 Watersedge cove Sanctuary Lakes Vic 3030 - House for Rent #417231994 - realestate.com.au
#89
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
I wouldn't know whether the schools down that way are considered bad or not, but I've not heard any stand out negatives.
Werribee which isn't that far away had a really bad reputation at one stage, but that generational lot seem to have gone past that stage now. Now it's Tarneit... So far enough away seemingly not to influence that direct area.
#90
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Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Epsom
Posts: 1,705
Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne
Only other options are to apply out of zone for better public schools closer in - like Maribyrnong, Williamstown etc - but no guarantee of acceptance and the commute in the mornings is horrible.
Then you have private schooling options, there is a Catholic school in Point Cook and a very good Grammar school (Westbourne) close by. But that is getting very popular now due to the boom in the population and may be becoming selective entry.