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Old Jun 27th 2017, 11:44 am   #61
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Actually I'm currently helping a colleague look into 'cultural leave' which involves looking at his Aboriginal heritage. On a more day-to-day work level we have to be constantly aware of the rights of the original landowners when dealing with reduction burns and the like.
If I replied to that one, I'd sound like beoz.
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 12:14 pm   #62
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Been there done that. Its not fun, especially when you have the worlds most selfish father in law who has never left his own county.
Some will be really supportive some will be really selfish!!
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 12:41 pm   #63
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Some will be really supportive some will be really selfish!!

True, and unfortunately that is just going to be the way it rolls.

The selfish ones, however, also have responsibility for keeping the relationship vibrant and positive, and THEY (not you) have to make a choice about whether to try and adapt, or to take their ball and go home. If they choose the latter there is not much you can (or should) do.

It isn't 1950 anymore. I have an older friend in her 60s, she has dual nationality Australia - South Africa (there are a lot of those here and in NZ), and a Swedish mother - my friend was born in Sweden but then moved to South Africa because her dad was from there, and as recently as the 1970s, if you left Europe, you left your family for good. You might get back once a decade - that's what they did, and they were (at minimum) upper middle class - and it took 3 days to get there. International phone calls in South Africa had to be booked a week in advance. In the US at the time, you could just pick up the phone and make an international phone call, but at astronomical rates like $10 a minute.

Today, my wife calls her grandparents in Italy on Skype any time she feels like it and exchanges e-mails with her mother daily. We go back to Europe annually (when we lived in the Middle East we went back 2x, 3x annually and her parents came there).

You are leaving, but you are not "leaving" the way it once was. This isn't the end of the world. They can accept that or not, but that is the reality of it.
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 12:56 pm   #64
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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That's South East London, hardly the world.

I drove through Catford a few weeks back. Still a dump.

I realise that, generally feedback re Melbourne Urban living is incredibly positive from the majority of quarters.

One of the last people on these boards that gave Melbourne a really negative rap was complaining about there being "Too many Sculptures" which I thought was hilarious as I'd hardly noticed them.
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 1:53 pm   #65
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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True, and unfortunately that is just going to be the way it rolls.

The selfish ones, however, also have responsibility for keeping the relationship vibrant and positive, and THEY (not you) have to make a choice about whether to try and adapt, or to take their ball and go home. If they choose the latter there is not much you can (or should) do.

It isn't 1950 anymore. I have an older friend in her 60s, she has dual nationality Australia - South Africa (there are a lot of those here and in NZ), and a Swedish mother - my friend was born in Sweden but then moved to South Africa because her dad was from there, and as recently as the 1970s, if you left Europe, you left your family for good. You might get back once a decade - that's what they did, and they were (at minimum) upper middle class - and it took 3 days to get there. International phone calls in South Africa had to be booked a week in advance. In the US at the time, you could just pick up the phone and make an international phone call, but at astronomical rates like $10 a minute.

Today, my wife calls her grandparents in Italy on Skype any time she feels like it and exchanges e-mails with her mother daily. We go back to Europe annually (when we lived in the Middle East we went back 2x, 3x annually and her parents came there).

You are leaving, but you are not "leaving" the way it once was. This isn't the end of the world. They can accept that or not, but that is the reality of it.
Your right it is loads easier now! I'm almost scared to tell my sister, I will wait until we have made our final decision and things have started moving!
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 3:07 pm   #66
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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I have a pet peeve about people who appropriate things aboriginal in order to say "look, we've got culture too". It's all too 'noble savage' for my liking.

Practically australian culture started in 1788, the stuff before is someone else's and doesn't inform people's lives in the cities at all.

As I say, australia is a young country, no matter what it might try and convince itself of.
What makes you peevish is irrelevant. Although if it was relevant, I might respond with saying that Eurocentrics are one of my pet peeves.

My adult children are Aboriginal. They're neither noble nor savage. Well - they used to get a bit savage when I told them to get off the Nintendo and get to bed Clip over the lug'ole sorted them out.
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 9:35 pm   #67
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Some will be really supportive some will be really selfish!!
If they have your interest at heart, they will be supportive. If they have their own interest at heart, they won't be.

That's how it works.
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Old Jun 28th 2017, 1:32 am   #68
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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What makes you peevish is irrelevant. Although if it was relevant, I might respond with saying that Eurocentrics are one of my pet peeves.

My adult children are Aboriginal. They're neither noble nor savage. Well - they used to get a bit savage when I told them to get off the Nintendo and get to bed Clip over the lug'ole sorted them out.
Realistically, day to day, in my opinion, Au culture is still largely Anglo but is starting to transition to global / Asian melting pot around the edges (or is well in progress). As I've alluded to, the only culture I'm personally interested in is older established culture and you can find it here as you would anywhere else. Not so much as in UK or France if you choose to measure by literal volume but how many British people really are 'cultured'? I'm not a big fan of suburban mediocrity anywhere: but do like the established flavour you find in Melbournes' N and E. It's a bit pinker N, and a bit more 'conservative' out E. Just call me Bernard Salt. :-)
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Old Jun 28th 2017, 1:58 am   #69
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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I realise that, generally feedback re Melbourne Urban living is incredibly positive from the majority of quarters.

One of the last people on these boards that gave Melbourne a really negative rap was complaining about there being "Too many Sculptures" which I thought was hilarious as I'd hardly noticed them.
I could do with more hanging out in inner Melbourne. I have spent some repeated time in Richmond. It's OK. I wouldn't say amazing. Where else is there to check out?
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Old Jun 28th 2017, 3:00 am   #70
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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What makes you peevish is irrelevant. Although if it was relevant, I might respond with saying that Eurocentrics are one of my pet peeves.
Well, yes it is relevant, and because it explains why I have no time for it.

The 'noble savage' was a trope that arose originally from religion - suggesting that various 'aboriginal' types were closer to the garden of eden, living a more natural life, in touch with the natural cycles, etc. Sound like anything you still hear today?

That then transitioned over a period of time into racist idea that they were children, unable to take care of themselves, and when violence arose, well it was 'evil' and needed to get stamped out in typically religious fashion.

What the 'noble savage' does is setup a group not to a standard and expectation that says equality - it sets them apart, and measures them against some idealised eden.

And saying that that 'noble savage' idea of aboriginal culture is somehow the culture of modern day australia is not only a lie, it also sets up for the problems that arise when reality and myth meet - and people get that dissonance that their idea of myth and 'culture' that they have appropriated aren't real.
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Old Jun 28th 2017, 3:10 am   #71
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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OK, I'm not going to get in to the usual back and forth. Suffice to say I don't recognise most of that, and several bits are hopelessly out of date.
It's a very accurate description, and very up to date. Which parts do you disagree with?

You are living in fantasy land if you think living in Melbourne's outer west is anything like living in the inner suburbs, or suburbs like Hampton, Camberwell, Caulfield, Armadale etc. The difference is like living in 2 completely different cities.
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Old Jun 28th 2017, 3:11 am   #72
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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I could do with more hanging out in inner Melbourne. I have spent some repeated time in Richmond. It's OK. I wouldn't say amazing. Where else is there to check out?
Fitzroy, Collingwood, Carlton, Clifton Hill, Northcote, Brunswick, North Melbourne, West Melbourne, Flemington, Kensington, Yarraville in the North.... I think Prahran, South Yarra, Hawthorn and more on the South and East.... I don't get over to that side, there are more but not that easy to get to by Tram or Train without interchange for me. I wont drive the car for nights out.... Public Transport in and back and/or Uber home.

I'd try Fitzroy or Collingwood next time if I were you as they are within easy walking distance of each other.


The venues are quite well hidden in places like Brunswick, down side streets etc etc, all within walking distance of the main thoroughfares of Sydney, Nicholson and Lygon..... Or on them.


I've been going here Lately on the edge of the City/North Melbourne Border.

http://birdsbasement.com/

Northcote is the LGBT centric part of town with the emphasis on "L"
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Old Jun 28th 2017, 3:14 am   #73
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Fitzroy, Collingwood, Carlton, Northcote, Brunswick, North Melbourne, West Melbourne, Flemington, Kensington, Yarraville in the North.... I think Prahran, South Yarra, Hawthorn and more on the South and East.... I don't get over to that side, there are more but not that easy to get to by Tram or Train without interchange for me. I wont drive the car for nights out.... Public Transport in and back and/or Uber home.

I'd try Fitzroy or Collingwood next time if I were you as they are within easy walking distance of each other.
Also Balaclava, Windsor and St Kilda are worth checking out.
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Old Jun 28th 2017, 4:31 am   #74
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Also Balaclava, Windsor and St Kilda are worth checking out.
Yup, Windsor is where it's at these days...anything new and exciting happening is at that end of Chapel St...not Prahran, South Yarra. Greville St, Prahran still has several great places, it's just the Chapel St part that is a bit sad. I live smack bang in the middle between Windsor and Balaclava...lots of great places on Carlisle St but it also seems to increasingly attract the drug addled side of St Kilda too (still a million miles from Richmond's drug problem though)!
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Old Jun 28th 2017, 6:28 am   #75
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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It's a very accurate description, and very up to date. Which parts do you disagree with?

You are living in fantasy land if you think living in Melbourne's outer west is anything like living in the inner suburbs, or suburbs like Hampton, Camberwell, Caulfield, Armadale etc. The difference is like living in 2 completely different cities.
As I said, basically most of it.

And you are living in a fantasy land if you think somewhere like Prahran is a nicer environment (tis a hole in my estimation). You are right about 2 completely different areas though...
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