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Old Jun 26th 2017, 4:30 pm   #31
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Aussie Rules football is quite a spectacular game and worth watching. There are more players, greater athleticism, and much bigger scores.
Oh will need to look that up!
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Old Jun 26th 2017, 6:49 pm   #32
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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It's australia. Realistically, it has no history etc.
No history? I think Australian Aboriginal people arriving by boat from South East Asia circa 50,000 years ago fits quite neatly into an historical perspective of the country.

As does the fact that at the time the first Europeans settled in Australia, there were up to 1 million Aboriginal people living there, ranging across the country as hunter/gatherers.

Is 300 different Aboriginal clans, speaking 250 languages with 700 different dialects at the time of white settlement not a rich sociological and cultural history?
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Old Jun 26th 2017, 9:45 pm   #33
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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It's australia. Realistically, it has no history etc.

One of the things I noticed coming here was how there was a huge continent of a country, but they crowded together in what would be considered low class, high density hovels because they thought it was more cultured, etc. to be in the middle of the city.

It's fake. Culture doesn't come from where you live, it come from what you are. Far too many of the 'arty' types here are just rehashing trends from 5 years ago (or more) elsewhere, jumping on bandwagons. It's got no depth, little authenticity, and no innovation.

So it doesn't tend to move me, or guide thoughts. What I can say is that in order to build, they have to put in quite a lot of parks and facilities, and generally make it a nice place to live. Sure you could say it's McMansions, but for someone from Scotland, that should be a good thing!



It's more expensive than it was a year ago!

As I said to beoz, it's not atypical, with a number of similar properties overlooking lakes, etc. When you compare like for like on what you can afford West vs East, it's pretty significantly different, even after those prices have risen. Wouldn't want to buy one of them, they are built to a price and will fall apart after 20-30 years, but renting...

One thing I did forget to mention, lots of families with kids in this area, so lots of potential friends for kids, etc.
As you would say, it is what you are: and people live out 'East' because that where the cultural centres are. Many art forms do reflect history of course especially in the arts. The housing stock is incidental and many houses are certainly not hovels.

Saying establishment is fake is ridiculous when people fake a life by centring a life around an indoor movie theatre and a trip to Bunnngs to build a fake letter box.

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Old Jun 26th 2017, 10:56 pm   #34
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
It's australia. Realistically, it has no history etc.

One of the things I noticed coming here was how there was a huge continent of a country, but they crowded together in what would be considered low class, high density hovels because they thought it was more cultured, etc. to be in the middle of the city.
Crowding together is an interesting human trait. Australia is not alone in that. Just take a drive through Europe. You pass through a villages where there might be 5 or 6 hours stacked together, virtually on top of one another with acres of farmland surrounding it.

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It's fake. Culture doesn't come from where you live, it come from what you are. Far too many of the 'arty' types here are just rehashing trends from 5 years ago (or more) elsewhere, jumping on bandwagons. It's got no depth, little authenticity, and no innovation.
For me, culture is how the vibe of a place makes me feel. It does make me laugh when the English bang on about culture. You can walk through any number of English towns and the vibe is horrible, £1 shops, Greggs, Argos stores, etc - if that's culture, then the vibe for me is horrible.

Sounds like its the same in Melbourne's western suburbs where you live? Not been there, I do not know but sounds a bit like Sydney's western suburbs.

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Originally Posted by GarryP View Post

So it doesn't tend to move me, or guide thoughts. What I can say is that in order to build, they have to put in quite a lot of parks and facilities, and generally make it a nice place to live. Sure you could say it's McMansions, but for someone from Scotland, that should be a good thing!

It's more expensive than it was a year ago!

As I said to beoz, it's not atypical, with a number of similar properties overlooking lakes, etc. When you compare like for like on what you can afford West vs East, it's pretty significantly different, even after those prices have risen. Wouldn't want to buy one of them, they are built to a price and will fall apart after 20-30 years, but renting...

One thing I did forget to mention, lots of families with kids in this area, so lots of potential friends for kids, etc.
I'd happily pay more, or live in smaller quarters to be in a place that had a vibe as that's culture for me. I am not a fan of the quarter acre block on an estate where there's no people on the street, few trees, not in walking distant of some decent local amenities like cafe's or pubs.

I would rather live in the countryside than live that existence.

But each to their own.
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Old Jun 26th 2017, 11:05 pm   #35
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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No history? I think Australian Aboriginal people arriving by boat from South East Asia circa 50,000 years ago fits quite neatly into an historical perspective of the country.

As does the fact that at the time the first Europeans settled in Australia, there were up to 1 million Aboriginal people living there, ranging across the country as hunter/gatherers.

Is 300 different Aboriginal clans, speaking 250 languages with 700 different dialects at the time of white settlement not a rich sociological and cultural history?
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Old Jun 26th 2017, 11:20 pm   #36
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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No history? I think Australian Aboriginal people arriving by boat from South East Asia circa 50,000 years ago fits quite neatly into an historical perspective of the country.

As does the fact that at the time the first Europeans settled in Australia, there were up to 1 million Aboriginal people living there, ranging across the country as hunter/gatherers.

Is 300 different Aboriginal clans, speaking 250 languages with 700 different dialects at the time of white settlement not a rich sociological and cultural history?
All of which is nice and pretty and very right on - and has nothing to do with the relative merits of west or east of Melbourne.
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Old Jun 26th 2017, 11:30 pm   #37
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Sounds like its the same in Melbourne's western suburbs where you live? Not been there, I do not know

I am not a fan of the quarter acre block on an estate where there's no people on the street, few trees, not in walking distant of some decent local amenities like cafe's or pubs.
I think you could do with actually visiting such a location sometime, your perception is pretty far out.

For a start, the idea of a quarter acre block is pretty far in the past, they tend to put in trees everywhere (if only to control where people can park) and the amenities follow the people (as I said to beoz, I can walk to three coffee shops from where I am).

And on top of that the houses are actually built with insulation and services, rather than being weatherboard shacks that people have tied to tart up inside and are currently changing hands of over a million dollars.

It's very much each to their own, and I'll agree there are issues (with both though) and the whole 'community' thing is something that's been exercising me recently. However when you tote up pros and cons, I get a very different balance from you. Maybe it's having lived in London, but the whole 'culture' thing really rings hollow to me.
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Old Jun 26th 2017, 11:54 pm   #38
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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All of which is nice and pretty and very right on - and has nothing to do with the relative merits of west or east of Melbourne.
Handy hint - if you're talking about Melbourne, don't say Australia
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 12:11 am   #39
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Handy hint - if you're talking about Melbourne, don't say Australia
Another handy hint, if you are talking about history / culture - talking about something totally disconnected from the mainstream populous really doesn't change the price of fish.
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 12:32 am   #40
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Another handy hint, if you are talking about history / culture - talking about something totally disconnected from the mainstream populous really doesn't change the price of fish.
How on earth do you work out that the long history of Australia is totally disconnected from the mainstream populace?
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 2:05 am   #41
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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How on earth do you work out that the long history of Australia is totally disconnected from the mainstream populace?
OK, point to something you do/use during your usual life that connects in any serious way with pre-1788.

It's pretty hard to point to anything pre-1900.
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 3:34 am   #42
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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That is dirt cheap. What's the catch? Location?
Yes, Point Cook and the west are not great locations. It's livable, and yes I understand many people are forced there due to cost of living in the East/North, but it's nothing special at all.

Pros
Cheaper housing
Newer housing

Cons
-Bad Infrastructure
-Many areas are commercial/industrial
-Shocking congestion - 1-2 hour commutes are not unheard of when the Westgate Freeway is bad.
-Bad schools - there are no public secondary schools I'd want to send my kids to, especially in Wyndham area
-Cafe and pub culture is non-existent, no decent restaurants (exception is a Thai restaurant in Laverton), nothing good until Footscray/Yarraville.
-Dusty and windy, especially new estates
-Internet can be non-existent literally - exchanges are full
-Some of the highest crime rates (Point Cook one of the highest for burglary)

It's just monotonous, dreary suburbia with nothing going on. Nobody walks anywhere, apart from elderly Chinese doing some exercise. No greenery, no hills. Modern fortress homes, people drive up with their electric garage openers and disappear.

If you have kids spend the extra and live in a more established area in the south-east or other inner suburbs - the difference in rent (sometimes not much) more than pays for itself with better schools

Last edited by sr71; Jun 27th 2017 at 3:38 am.
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 3:35 am   #43
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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OK, point to something you do/use during your usual life that connects in any serious way with pre-1788.
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 3:37 am   #44
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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I think you could do with actually visiting such a location sometime, your perception is pretty far out.
Probably. Its been a long time. My perception could do with an update, that's for sure.
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Old Jun 27th 2017, 3:38 am   #45
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Default Re: Questions, questions - Melbourne

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Yes, Point Cook and the west are not great locations. It's livable, and yes I understand many people are forced there due to cost of living in the East/North, but it's nothing special at all.

Pros
Cheaper housing
Newer housing

Cons
-Bad Infrastructure
-Many areas are commercial/industrial
-Shocking congestion - 1-2 hour commutes are not unheard of when the Westgate Freeway is bad.
-Bad schools - there are no public secondary schools I'd want to send my kids to, especially in Wyndham area
-Cafe and pub culture is non-existent, no decent restaurants (exception is a Thai restaurant in Laverton), nothing good until Footscray/Yarraville.
-Dusty and windy, especially new estates
-Internet can be non-existent literally - exchanges are full
-Some of the highest crime rates (Point Cook one of the highest for burglary)

It's just monotonous, dreary suburbia with nothing going on

If you have kids spend the extra and live in a more established area in the south-east or other inner suburbs - the difference in rent (sometimes not much) more than pays for itself with better schools
..... and commute times / costs. Time is money
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