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Political Coup in Australia...

Political Coup in Australia...

Old Jun 26th 2010, 12:47 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by roaringmouse
So knowing about the risk of death from dodgy insulation installations, and the PMs office telling Garrett that it's ok - which sure enough is followed by a number of deaths, along with ongoing house fires is simply a "mistake" then?
My response was following on from "By independent reports that is not true...the stimulus was the main reason." and I stand by the fact that the stimulus was internationally recognised as the major reason Australia stands now with low unemployment, high relative confidence, no bank runs, no technical recession etc. This has spared thousands of Australians untold misery being experienced by other countries.

If this early and strong intervention had failed to produce these outcomes the govt would stand condemned today. Given this, to be balanced, they should stand commended for the result.

The truth and lies of who said what to whom during the implementation I'll leave to others as I know little about it....
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Old Jun 26th 2010, 12:59 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by fish.01
The truth and lies of who said what to whom during the implementation I'll leave to others as I know little about it....
The question wasn't about what was said between government departments, it was asking if the deaths and ongoing house fires directly caused by how the home insulation scheme was implemented is simply a "mistake" as you seemed to suggest in your earlier post.
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Old Jun 26th 2010, 1:20 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by roaringmouse
The question wasn't about what was said between government departments, it was asking if the deaths and ongoing house fires directly caused by how the home insulation scheme was implemented is simply a "mistake" as you seemed to suggest in your earlier post.
And to answer whether it was a mistake or something more malicious you would need to know who said what to whom re your comment "knowing about the risk of death from dodgy insulation installations, PMs office telling Garrett that it's ok - which sure enough is followed by a number of deaths".
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Old Jun 26th 2010, 1:32 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by fish.01
And to answer whether it was a mistake or something more malicious you would need to know who said what to whom re your comment "knowing about the risk of death from dodgy insulation installations, PMs office telling Garrett that it's ok - which sure enough is followed by a number of deaths".
You don't need to know that - the fact is, it was widely reported in the media. Each death was reported, and linked to the insulation scheme. Ongoing house fires have been reported in the media, and linked to the scheme by the fire agencies. Deaths and housefires were being reported widely in the media during the operation of the scheme - the risk of death was quite clear, yet allowed to continue.

The media reports were ongoing for a long time before the scheme was suspended, to return later on (followed a bit later by yet another backflip and the scheme cancelled).

Also my question was simply if the deaths and house fires were simply a mistake by your reasoning - I have not implied any malice, which you know have as the only alternative.
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Old Jun 26th 2010, 2:09 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by roaringmouse
You don't need to know that - the fact is, it was widely reported in the media. Each death was reported, and linked to the insulation scheme. Ongoing house fires have been reported in the media, and linked to the scheme by the fire agencies. Deaths and housefires were being reported widely in the media during the operation of the scheme - the risk of death was quite clear, yet allowed to continue.

The media reports were ongoing for a long time before the scheme was suspended, to return later on (followed a bit later by yet another backflip and the scheme cancelled).

Also my question was simply if the deaths and house fires were simply a mistake by your reasoning - I have not implied any malice, which you know have as the only alternative.
And my answer is I have no idea if they were mistakes or there was malice involved (I am implying the malice). To know that I would need to know the actual details of who did what when rather than rely on sometimes unreliable press reports that I didn't follow closely. (eg. I saw small retractions later stating the fire was found to not be caused by the insulation). I don't know what was done in Canberra at what time and who knew what when. I don't know the details so I wouldn't like to comment. Can I leave this to someone else?
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Old Jun 26th 2010, 10:08 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by fish.01
The previous posters argument was that govt implementing stimulus did nothing - clearly incorrect according to unbiased reports.
Not sure if you're referring to me there but certainly the stimuli of the various western govts had an effect, they delayed a painful but necessary recession at the risk of something much worse, and the full effects won't be known for a good while yet.

There are plenty of unbiased reports around which state both sides of the argument, after all its a pretty subjective term.
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Old Jun 27th 2010, 2:16 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by roaringmouse
the fact is, it was widely reported in the media.
Not sure about the validity of the media reporting myself
 
Old Jun 27th 2010, 8:01 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by roaringmouse
You don't need to know that - the fact is, it was widely reported in the media. Each death was reported, and linked to the insulation scheme. Ongoing house fires have been reported in the media, and linked to the scheme by the fire agencies. Deaths and housefires were being reported widely in the media during the operation of the scheme - the risk of death was quite clear, yet allowed to continue.

The media reports were ongoing for a long time before the scheme was suspended, to return later on (followed a bit later by yet another backflip and the scheme cancelled).

Also my question was simply if the deaths and house fires were simply a mistake by your reasoning - I have not implied any malice, which you know have as the only alternative.
the accidents/deaths etc were caused by morons fitting it. People using tin foil, and putting metal nails through live electricity cables to pin the foil to the roof joists. I am pretty sure that in the australian building codes it says something like ' dear muppet, if you put a nail through a live wire it is going to hurt '

so how is that the gov't fault? should they legislate that morons cant do work? I thought that was fairly covered by all the licencing. How is it a ministers fault?
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Old Jun 27th 2010, 9:37 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by spalen
the accidents/deaths etc were caused by morons fitting it. People using tin foil, and putting metal nails through live electricity cables to pin the foil to the roof joists. I am pretty sure that in the australian building codes it says something like ' dear muppet, if you put a nail through a live wire it is going to hurt '

so how is that the gov't fault? should they legislate that morons cant do work? I thought that was fairly covered by all the licencing. How is it a ministers fault?
cos that 2.5bn insulation stimulus was thrown in to an UNREGULATED industry. every man, woman and their dog could see what was going to happen... apart from this muppet government.
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Old Jun 27th 2010, 9:49 am
  #40  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by TheSun
cos that 2.5bn insulation stimulus was thrown in to an UNREGULATED industry. every man, woman and their dog could see what was going to happen... apart from this muppet government.
omg.. please... So all the posts on here about how this is a nanny state, and the ridiculous levels of regulation , how the myriad of licencing bodies and tests are 'back in the dark ages'.

This is nothing to do with the government -its people being pikeys and taking short cuts. Anyone can work out that putting metal pins through metal sheets into electrical cable is dangerous. I dunno how they left the lofts with the tingly feeling in the fingers , maybe they thought they'd just had a good day.

should every industry be regulated - then make the govt entirely responsible for everything?
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Old Jun 27th 2010, 11:11 am
  #41  
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Default Re: Political Coup in Australia...

Originally Posted by spalen
should every industry be regulated - then make the govt entirely responsible for everything?
So you're suggesting the government should not be responsible for their policy now?

If the government is going to throw loads of money into something like a one-off home insulation scheme, then yes the government is responsible to make sure the implementation under the scheme is satisfactory, and in this case safe.
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