Beoz

Its not pleasant being laid off or being vulnerable because you are out of your depth, but that's life.

On the flip side laying someone off is an expensive affair. For a small business owner it can be crippling. I know 2 business owners who have been so financially damaged by lay offs that they refuse to re-grow the business to reduce future risk. Both say on average a lay off is a $50k exercise per person. That's jobs and tax revenue the community is not going to see.

Yep. It employs the best. That's why Singapore has become the king of Asia. You know Indonesia and Malaysia refuse to export sand to Singapore for reclamation projects. Resentment about Singapore being better.

spouse of scouse

It's not really hard at all, you just need to know how to do it. For good or bad, I was known as Madame Guillotine in my last government job.

the troubadour

Singapore the island/city, where former PM Lew Kuan Yew admitted a few years before his death, that Singapore had grown the previous five years just by immigration alone.


Singapore. Tepid wage growth and slowing consumer spending. Rising household debt, (now 75% of GDP)Unemployment at an eight year high....


Population doubled in thirty years.....one third foreigners.....


Reminds me of another place not to far away from Singapore.......


Productivity even with large importation of foreign labour has remained low.


But I suspect its the socialised housing in Singapore that attracts you? Some 70 plus per cent are living as such. It certainly is a way around very high cost housing costs that plight Singapore. Do you think it would be the answer to Australian cities run away housing costs?

Amazulu

Tell me again how allowing 1 million + 3rd world muslim migrants into Germany is of benefit to that country. How has it affected their GDP growth? How much has their government deficit grown by to pay for their ongoing upkeep?

While you're at it, check the % of GDP that private debt in Denmark (a country that you consider to be superior to all others BTW) accounts for. I think you'll find it interesting reading

When you get back with the numbers, we''ll talk some more Herman

Ozziechris

In a nutshell no. If you had asked me 20 years ago it would be resounding yes. It is a very expensive country, not just ridiculous house prices but food and many other things. There is crazy amounts of red tape and bureaucracy. The Government is selling the country to the highest bidder.
So it's a no from me.
Thats not to say it won't suit some people, those who surf for instance or really like the heat.

the troubadour

You just can't help yourself can you? What is it with you and German immigration? You would be better going onto the European section, German board to discuss your German immigration infatuation.


But if you must. While The Conservative Party of German politics did allow around a million people into the country Australia adds a million in population every four years.


Australia has a far smaller population and Germany has made it clear it was a one off. People are now being returned. I expect business supported the initial policy.


Now Denmark is a different proposition. One of the most equal countries in terms of top to bottom, often voted the happiest country on earth, with a sound welfare system and less concerns about ageing etc than most others. Small can sometimes be best. The world doesn't just get by crunching figures. It is about quality of life and care. Bean counters stay away.

the troubadour

I agree. Being established due to the good fortune of arriving when times were 'good' and very different.


Having a very long association with Australia I as well knew fully what to expect in terms of cost and pro's and con's.


In recent years I doubt very much if I would have bothered as can't see a reason why would have moved to an expensive country and all that entails.


Indeed the sun remains as it always has and the beaches but little else. The rules and regulations further cloud desirability although many locals appear to approve. A bit of a turn off to those used to more freedoms.

Amazulu

I see you never gave the figures for private debt as a % of GDP for Denmark, and I'm not surprised - they're f**king insane (have a look at those for Holland too - even higher). Now, how is it okay for Denmark (a country that you consider to be superior in every way) to have very high a very high debt to GDP ratio but not Australia? Why is this bad for Australia but not Denmark? Australia is a very equitable country - certainly among the capitalist Anglo-Celtic nations it is and up with the socialist Scandi bloc too

You talk about quality of life and not just looking at economics and to a degree you're right - QOL is much more than just money. One of the most powerful and simplest measures to quantify a nation's well-being is the UN's Human Development Index. HDI measures the economy, life expectancy and educational attainment. Australia remains 2nd on the HDI Index (and has been there for many years) to Norway and ahead of Denmark, Holland and Germany. Even on the mumbo jumbo, inequality adjusted HDI scale, Australia is 3rd behind Norway and Iceland

Hope this helps Herman

Beoz

And yet Lew Kuan Yew is a hero to Singaporeans because of the high standard of living he gave the people through policies ranging from immigration to tax breaks for corporations.

He is a hero for building housing in which Singaporeans can have access to via first home buyer grants etc. Very different from the social housing you imply.

If it was so grim as you want to portray homelessness would be rife, but its non existent.

The funny part is, when Singapore changed its immigration policy recently, we could not find a local to do the job. Thankfully we found a way through and got someone from abroad. We are in the process of doing the same again. Skills are still required and the right skills are not taking from the locals nor being banned.

Well done Singapore. The right balance comes from the rightly paid leaders.

Amazulu

The growth story of Singapore is insane. They've done it with hard capitalism, low taxes, education, immigration and hard work and sacrifice. The other major factor is a lack of real democracy - Singapore is the poster child for benign dictatorship (not that I agree that this is the best way to go)

the troubadour

A hero among some Singaporeans you mean to say. Not those that opposed his brand of authoritarian democracy and wanting a country where all forms of expression could be aired. A country where the nanny state ruled supreme.(from hair length to banning chewing gum and much in between) A country that once held the longest prison serving political prisoner in the world.


What I implied is that 70% plus of the population live in state housing, which obviously I know they can buy. Actually housing outside of 'the system' is not affordable for most being highly expensive.


Obviously Lee done a lot to build Singapore but it didn't come stress free.


Anyway the crux is, no matter how many Neo Libs in Australia praise Singapore for their nanny state and harsh laws, neo liberal economic policy it has endured hard times and is very dependant on overseas conditions. The oil price for example. Not so dissimilar to Australia after all.


The importation of migrants maintain GDP levels, an influx of workers both high earning and manual. Being squeezed at both ends is one expression.




But neo cons will continue to use Singapore an island with no resources and somehow try to compare it to Australia. Low tax economy as some sort of paradise to be emulated. It isn't. Although their housing and transport system would benefit Australia in not tying up wealth in unproductive housing.

Clacfart

I have been following this post for quite some time, some of it not making too much sense to me but I guess that is because I am only at the midpoint of my emigration plans.

I have commented once or twice but are not really relevant in regards to moving to Australia being worth it or not as again, my experience is zero at the moment. I won't know until I get there and have settled in I guess?

However, it has made me think a little broader around emigration. For example, a friend of mine was talking to me over Christmas, he is an Australian; born and bred. Yet he emigrated to the UK. I always have found this quite shocking!! In my own little bubble and uneducated mind of emigration wondering; why on earth would someone move over here to the UK from somewhere like Australia?

Does anyone regret moving over to Australia? Was it what you expected? How did you find your first year?

Just curious...

Pollyana

I regretted it as soon as I got here, if I'm honest. I wish I'd listened to more of the realistic stories on BE about life here - the het, the humidity, the red tape, the work culture, health care costs, the difficulty in making friends, the list is endless. It works for some people but not for others. 14 years on I am just living for the day I retire and can go home.
And for the same reason, the UK works for some and not for others. Don't see why its so strange that an Aussie would prefer life in the UK any more than a Brit would prefer life over here. We're all different and we all want different things in life -s Australia provides what some wants, but for others the UK might be better.
I know Aussies, Canadians and Americans who have all moved to the UK and prefer it to their home countries, its really no different from Brits moving here, just peoplemigrating for their own reasons.

Clacfart

That's what I had meant by I used to be confused why someone would migrate here. This thread has broadened my mind somewhat.

To be fair he plans to move back after being here for 15 years.

Xx

Pollyana

By which time he will probably have a British wife, and a couple of kids, and will come up against all the issues of spouse visas and families who aren't sure which country is home...... Lots of threads on that one too!