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Old Jul 19th 2009, 12:57 am   #91
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Originally Posted by DEEDEE01 View Post
do you think they will write these off after 5 or 6 years if I cut all contacts due to financial hardship ?
Excluding the mortgage, the actual banks will write off your debts probably within the next financial year - they will offload them very quickly to the secondary debt market. Debt recovery companies buy these bundled up debts from the banks for literally pennies in the pound and then try to pursue the debts themselves.

Also, while CCJs etc might not be enforceable, or even obtainable if the creditor knows you are in Australia with an Australian address - I believe for large enough debts they can still make people bankrupt in their absence.

For HMRC debts there is an office that has been set up for pursuing foreign debtors, I suspect that they would only go after people who owe hundreds of thousands/millions in tax, otherwise your HMRC tax account goes on hold and as soon as you re-activate it by getting a job etc they will start recovery action again.

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Old Jul 19th 2009, 1:51 am   #92
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Originally Posted by perksy View Post
If the Student Loan is pre-1998 (an old style one) then its classed as a consumer loan and not alot can be done to chase up payment. This loophole was closed for Student Loans issued post 1998 (which are classed as civil debts) and can be enforced provided the country of residence has a reciprocal agreement with the UK.
Can't say much as I've just had a ticking off from my sis - but it's definately happening as she's going to be heavily involved in it.
I guess there will be a lot of expats out there who are going to be in for a shock!!
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 2:32 am   #93
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

Loyalty is a two way street. Why be loyal to an organisation that will shit on you at the first opportunity?[/QUOTE]

Well said !!!
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 2:33 am   #94
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Excluding the mortgage, the actual banks will write off your debts probably within the next financial year - they will offload them very quickly to the secondary debt market. Debt recovery companies buy these bundled up debts from the banks for literally pennies in the pound and then try to pursue the debts themselves.

Also, while CCJs etc might not be enforceable, or even obtainable if the creditor knows you are in Australia with an Australian address - I believe for large enough debts they can still make people bankrupt in their absence.

For HMRC debts there is an office that has been set up for pursuing foreign debtors, I suspect that they would only go after people who owe hundreds of thousands/millions in tax, otherwise your HMRC tax account goes on hold and as soon as you re-activate it by getting a job etc they will start recovery action again.
You need a UK address to be declared bankrupt in the UK
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 2:37 am   #95
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

Ive spoken to people in the know and they have said that the only company who can legally chase you for money is the taxman, I knkw a guy who did a runner on a very large scale, I'm talking millions, he owed the Uk tax man about 30k, It went on and on for about 3-4 yrs, he ignored all there letters until he got one that sais it had gone up to 80k with costs and interests and they could apply to aussie tax office to claim what was owed, he has negotiated a lower figure but has still had to fork out over 50k to UK tax man,

Also.

British companies can chase you all they want but cant enforce anything, this is fact, it's not a crime to be in debt or to run away just morally wrong
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 2:45 am   #96
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Actually if you read this thread the debate is about the practicalities and legalities of enforcement of debt. Nobody was claiming that its was OK or debating that point...until you weighed in with this moral high ground.
I thought you were supposed to be a moderator ! Didn' know it was all about taking sides, or is that a personal opinion your expressing, I forget now, does seem a private chat room sometimes, not a public forum !!!
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 2:54 am   #97
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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I thought you were supposed to be a moderator ! Didn' know it was all about taking sides, or is that a personal opinion your expressing, I forget now, does seem a private chat room sometimes, not a public forum !!!
I dont think Centurion was taking sides. The post was to point along the lines that this debt thread is concentrating on the legal issues of debt rather than the moral stance. There's heeps of posts regarding the morals of not paying debts in the other debt threads. This one is concentrating on the legal point of view. Maybe you could dig up one of the other threads or start your own regarding how you feel morally about debt.
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 3:16 am   #98
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Totally AGREE with you, I'm glad there is somebody out there with MORALS !!!

If you are struggling to pay your debts and you run away from them, this is being dishonest as you have no intentions of paying it back, regardless of circumstance !!! Any form of stealing is DISHONEST !!

I am choosing to face my issues head on as I agreed to when I signed all the paper work for these borrowings. If I ever need to return to the UK for whatever reason, I can walk round and not have to look over my shoulder every 5 minutes.

How many people on the thread have actually done this ? Has it paid off ? How many of you have family and friends still in the UK who WILL have to pick up the pieces for your debt when they come to renew their mortgage, insurance premiums.


I am not saying that people are entitiled to opinions but it has shocked the hell out of me knowing there is so many people on here who think this sort of behaviour is OK ? When you signed for you Oz mortgage or car finance, did it have at the bottom, it is OK to do one if your financial circumstances change ?

If it happens again, where are you going to run next ?
Another one who needs to learn the meaning of the word steal. The key phrase here is take without permission. A creditor LENDS money, the debtor doesnt TAKE money. being in debt and not paying debts are not criminal acts therefore cannot be described as stealing.

Steal - to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.

In which catagory would you place a DCA who's trying to collect an unenforcable debt (which is an illegal act by the way)?
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 3:23 am   #99
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Another one who needs to learn the meaning of the word steal. The key phrase here is take without permission. A creditor LENDS money, the debtor doesnt TAKE money. being in debt and not paying debts are not criminal acts therefore cannot be described as stealing.

Steal - to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.

In which catagory would you place a DCA who's trying to collect an unenforcable debt (which is an illegal act by the way)?
I can try and understand what your saying but if you sign an agreement with a bank etc et, and then 12 months in you can't pay, you just run away, what would you call this if it's not stealing or dishonest ?

This is not intended to cause an argument, mearly just a question ?
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 3:34 am   #100
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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I can try and understand what your saying but if you sign an agreement with a bank etc et, and then 12 months in you can't pay, you just run away, what would you call this if it's not stealing or dishonest ?

This is not intended to cause an argument, mearly just a question ?
Its neither to be fair. Its certainly not stealing as the creditor gave permission for the loan. I cant see it as being dishonest either, unless you purposely seek to gain credit with no intention of ever paying it back (which is fraud). When most people sign up for credit they have every honest intentions of paying it back. I would say its a mixture of bad luck (unforeseen circumstances), stupidity (borrowing too much and getting out of depth) and financial naivety.

It only takes something like a redundancy, or serious illness to plunge most people into the shit and these are uncontrollable to most
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 3:36 am   #101
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Ive spoken to people in the know and they have said that the only company who can legally chase you for money is the taxman, I knkw a guy who did a runner on a very large scale, I'm talking millions, he owed the Uk tax man about 30k, It went on and on for about 3-4 yrs, he ignored all there letters until he got one that sais it had gone up to 80k with costs and interests and they could apply to aussie tax office to claim what was owed, he has negotiated a lower figure but has still had to fork out over 50k to UK tax man,

Also.

British companies can chase you all they want but cant enforce anything, this is fact, it's not a crime to be in debt or to run away just morally wrong
Unless you have significant assets, in which case you should really pay your debts, then in cases where you owe HMRC a lot it really is probably best to declare bankruptcy in the UK, which you can do from Australia, and at least then you put closure to everything.
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 3:46 am   #102
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Its neither to be fair. Its certainly not stealing as the creditor gave permission for the loan. I cant see it as being dishonest either, unless you purposely seek to gain credit with no intention of ever paying it back (which is fraud). When most people sign up for credit they have every honest intentions of paying it back. I would say its a mixture of bad luck (unforeseen circumstances), stupidity (borrowing too much and getting out of depth) and financial naivety.

It only takes something like a redundancy, or serious illness to plunge most people into the shit and these are uncontrollable to most
Totally agree with you, when you take out the debt initially you intend to pay it back, 99.9% of people borrow to get a nice care etc etc, if you could afford to pay with your own cash then you wouldn't borrow in the first place, surely, so the majority of people borrow when they can't really afford it, it's all about keeping up with the Jones', he's got a pool, I want a bigger one, so it goes on....

Anyway getting back, after 12 months you can't pay due to redundancy, your ill. You flee the country without a dickie bird ?

How many people on here made an appointment with their bank, creditors etc and explained.........

' I am falling behind / going to fall behind on my borrowings, but I am moving abroad, I am not giving you my contact details though, because legally, it is a consumer debt and it will be written off in X number of years '

Is this not being deceitful, KNOWING your intentions to move to another country, and that you have not told your creditor squat about you circumstances, and not even tried to come to some reduced payment arrangement ?

Or because people know their legal rights, they know how to play the system, hence, this is why it is not, Deceitful, Dishonest or Stealing ??????
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 3:49 am   #103
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Or because people know their legal rights, they know how to play the system, hence, this is why it is not, Deceitful, Dishonest or Stealing ??????
Morals are generally an old relic of the 1950's I believe.

Now life is all about getting the most for yourself and family and using the system as best as you can to achieve that. It's just a big game.

Do you really think that bankers, traders and CEO's are big on morals?
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 3:50 am   #104
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Unless you have significant assets, in which case you should really pay your debts, then in cases where you owe HMRC a lot it really is probably best to declare bankruptcy in the UK, which you can do from Australia, and at least then you put closure to everything.
Quite true, you can declare bankruptcy from Australia, though you still need a UK address. I wouldn't advise it though, if it were me I would be taking professional advice from UK based solutions rather than from over here.
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 3:58 am   #105
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Default Re: Leaving UK Debt Unpaid - A Warning

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Originally Posted by DEEDEE01 View Post
I can try and understand what your saying but if you sign an agreement with a bank etc et, and then 12 months in you can't pay, you just run away, what would you call this if it's not stealing or dishonest ?

This is not intended to cause an argument, mearly just a question ?
Deedee there are two issues here.

Centurion mentioned that the thread was started to understand the legalities regarding people leaving debt in UK. This is why he was questioning your comments as they were based on the morality of debt and not the legalities of debt i.e this is not what the thread was about originally.

The second issue which you raised was the moral side of raising debt and I agree with you in that no matter what the legal stance is, we cannot ignore the moral side of it. It doesn't matter if this was the original question or not, an "offshoot" to the argument being the moral dilemma of taking on debt must also be a consideration.

Either way, the thread has covered two parts. The first being what people must do legally and the second what people must do morally. I reckon it's the same story, those that cover their arses legally and don't care and others who always do the right thing regardless.

Only people themselves can make that choice mate.
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